Suzanne Chadwick 0:00
Hey, hey, welcome back to the podcast. Amazing to have you here. Today we are talking all about copy, you know that I love talking about copy. Yeah, I love talking about how we can get better at it, how we get more confident with it, how we cut through the noise, I actually have a big belief that copy is one of the most important things in your business, the way that you develop your message, the way you communicate it the way you write about it. All of the things because we have to write good copy whether it's on our website, blogs, social media, whatever it is. And so that is why I think that this is something that we should all be focusing on a bit. Yeah, that we should absolutely be spending more time getting better at. And so that is definitely something that I have been doing over the last year or two. It's something that I'm trying to get better at. Every time I write something, I then go back and I try and get rid of words. I'm like, How can I make this less fluffy? How can I make it more to the point? Is it in my brand voice? Is it connecting with my audience. And so that's why I wanted to have Emma McMillan who is a copy coach on the podcast today. And Emma and I have worked together in the past as well. And so I said to her, Tell me what you can talk to my audience about when it comes to becoming a better copywriters for their own businesses. And so we wanted to talk about how you can build your confidence when it comes to your copy. And so let me introduce you to Emory if you don't know her. She is an educator, a copywriter, a copy coach and a podcast host. She's a former teacher of year twelves. Emma has run her successful copywriting business since 2016. And she constantly strives for work life in flow, balancing fitness, creative pursuits, and time with friends and family alongside her core business. She believes every small business deserves great copy. And in her work as a copy coach, she empowers individuals with the skills, confidence and accountability. They need to connect authentically and consistently with their audience, which is what we were just talking about. She's also the host of the not just about copy, podcast, and on that she shares a mix of conversations on words and language, along with practical coaching episodes on how to write better copy. So that's what we're talking about today. I think that this is something that we should keep talking about to be honest, because I feel like the market is always changing. And so we need to make sure that our message is evolving. The way that we're connecting with our audience is evolving. So that's why I thought this was such a great conversation. So listen, without further ado, let's dive into this week's episode. Ama Welcome to the brand builders love podcast.

Emma McMillan 3:32
Thanks for having me suis.

Suzanne Chadwick 3:33
My pleasure. My pleasure, I am looking forward to this conversation, my audience will know that I have been a little bit obsessed with coffee in the last 12 months where I'm just like, I'm just gonna become a really great copywriter. Well, not copywriter business owner who writes good copy I think I should say. So I've been on a quest to get better. And so today we're going to talk about how my audience can become more confident with the copy that they write. But before we dive in, do you want to just let them know a little bit about you and how you got here?

Emma McMillan 4:09
Yeah, for sure. So I'm a copywriting coach and copywriter. My background is in education. So I was actually a teacher for 12 years before I became a copywriter. And then that sort of four years into my copywriting business, what I realized was that I really missed actually the teaching part where I got to bounce around with people. And it was one thing for me to write copy for people but what I really wanted to do was empower them with the skills and the confidence to be able to do for themselves. And so what I do in my work is I work one on one and in my new group program, I work with small business owners to really get them feeling great about the copy that they're writing, and to let them take sort of full ownership over what they're putting out there and to feel really good about that without second guessing themselves all the time.

Suzanne Chadwick 4:55
I love that so guys about to say Emma that's so succinct and concise Sighs which I would expect from you, because you're great with your messaging and your words, the pressures on says, I know, no expectations. Oh, good. Oh, good. And so I feel like the market has changed quite a bit. I feel like we're everything is copy. If you haven't seen, there's a real now everything is content, everything is content, I feel like everything is copy, like whether I'm writing captions or sales pages or website or emails, like just being able to communicate really well, is so important. And so what do you think has changed in the market, when it comes to how business owners need to show up and the things that they need to do when it comes to copy?

Emma McMillan 5:51
Yeah, I think that's so interesting, because I mean, I remember back when I first started my copywriting business in 2016, it was still at the point where I had to explain to a lot of people what copy actually was or what copywriting was. I mean, I can't imagine that now because it feels like everybody's got a handle on it. But I think what has happened, especially over the last couple of years, is that there's so much digital noise and there's so much content, and there's so much copy that's out there that I think people are really understanding that they need to find a really unique way to cut through the noise. And maybe it's not necessarily also by always outsourcing, which can be a super great thing to do, if you know if that's something that you that works for you. But also by really understanding a message for yourself for your own brand. And by getting some tools to be able to communicate that because like you say it's across all these different touch points that we have in our businesses, you know, from emails to socials, to sales pages to website, copy, everything that we put out needs to feel consistent needs to feel on brand, to kind of really, I guess, elevate that customer or client experience. And I know that this relates so much to what you talk about with branding. And that it really is, that whole experience that someone gets from interacting with you is that you wanting to really kind of establish sense of who you are, establish a sense of what you do, how you're unique in your space, and what people can expect by working with you. And so coffee is such a beautiful way to be able to do that. But it does involve getting a really clear understanding on what your message is. But I think people aren't really coming around to wanting to get on board with that. And I'm certainly seeing a lot more people come through coaching than ever before, especially versus copywriting.

Suzanne Chadwick 7:36
Yeah, and I think that's a really interesting thing as well. Like, I know, we've done copy collabs before too, because I would prefer just to write it all down, and then have somebody finesse it, rather than me having to explain to somebody what I want. So I just think that that is definitely a shift that I'm seeing for myself and for my clients too, is that it's just easy for us to be able to do that. And also, we want to get better. Like it's not, we don't just want to outsource it. We want to learn how to be better. And even though we might still outsource elements of copy, I think it is definitely a trend that I'm seeing is the desire to just become a better copywriter ourselves or be able to write better copy ourselves so that we can do it on a regular basis, because I can't like hire somebody every day to write content for me. And so yeah, I think that's so interesting. And so what do you see clients struggling with the most and and I think I'd love you to talk a little bit about the difference between message and copy as well. Because I think sometimes when I speak to clients, they're like, I don't know what to write. And I'm like, Well, what's, what's you may see? And they're like, well, like, they're not completely clear on that. And so obviously, that then stops them from writing great copy. But what else are you sort of seeing people struggling with?

Emma McMillan 9:09
Yeah, that's interesting. And one of the things that people tend to say to me after coaching is that the most clarifying thing about it was that they actually got a better sense of who they are and what their business does. Because often, you know, we're working in these little silos. And we don't necessarily get to bounce those ideas around to explore a little bit more deeply. Who we are so often, like, I'll just keep sort of digging and asking questions. So message, I guess, is more broadly, you know, what, like, what do you stand for? What are you all about, and so on, but copy is so different, and copy depends very much too on three key things really. And with every piece of copy, what I'll say to a client is you need to be thinking about who your audience is, for this particular piece of copy. What's the platform for it and what's the purpose of it? So for For instance, when you sit down to write a piece of copy, your messages will be the same across the board. But when you sit down and write, say, for a LinkedIn post versus a sales page, for example, like the purpose of that copy is not the same. Because it depends on you know, what's your goal for this particular piece of copy, write with a sales page you're looking for, you know, conversions with a LinkedIn post, you might be looking to build your authority, or you might be looking to share really valuable insights to help people understand something better. So the purpose can be quite different. Your message and kind of your content pillars are all that really high levels of stuff that kind of sits above everything. But the copy does depend on on that purpose, your structure and email differently to how you structure social posts, for example. So it's about understanding what the nuances are, and the structures of each of those different touch points and platforms that you're writing for, to think about, what does that copy actually look like?

Suzanne Chadwick 10:59
Yeah, and I don't think that a lot of people have taken the time to think through that as well. Like, what is my goal here? I feel like a lot of times, people I speak to they're just on a constant, like a content hamster wheel, where they're just like producing lots and lots of content. And I'm like, is it working? And they're like, I don't know. So I also think knowing like, what if this was working? What would happen here? So the goals and with the purpose, what sort of things like obviously, you were just saying, obviously sales page or for conversion? What are the purposes? Or what are the goals? Should we be looking at when we're writing copy?

Emma McMillan 11:47
Yes, they might have things for example, like, you might write emails, and you might, you know, for me, often I'll consider a good ROI for an email as to you know, how many people write back to that email and actually respond to it, or how many people you know, click the links in an email and look at, you know, the pages on my website, or how many people book a service based on that, and so on. So you've got all sorts of different metrics that you can be looking at. And they sort of feed into your overarching business goals as well. So it might be that, you know, for this next quarter, or whatever your focus is on building your community and your email list. So all of your actions will kind of be driving you towards that particular goal. And I think it seems really dangerous to be writing content just sort of in this like, void, because firstly, we can lose a lot of love for it. But second of all, it's like, our time is so precious, that really, if we're not creating content with these really clear goals and purpose in mind, then I really struggle to understand what the point of it really is, you know?

Suzanne Chadwick 12:44
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I do think that I do think, obviously, having our overarching business goals, and then taking a look at, you know, what do I need to do around my marketing, because I mean, really, majority of it is around marketing. So we're connecting with our audience, we're building our community where putting calls to action out making offers as well. And I think just having that kind of cascading what, what am I trying to do in my business? What do I need to talk about? What is my message that's going to attract the people that I want to be working with? And then what are all the different, I guess, avenues? Or distribution or channels that I'm using? And how am I communicating to them as well? So there is a lot to think about? For sure.

Unknown Speaker 13:31
Yeah, and particularly with those channels, too, it's about not necessarily just choosing the channels that say, your peers in the industry, that choosing or choosing the channels, you know, for just sort of whatever reason, but it's about thinking, Well, where is your audience? And where do they actually spend their time? And what makes the most sense for you. And just choosing maybe two or three, that really feel like that's where you want to focus your attention on. And then as he say, Look at what's working, look at the data, look at, you know, your own metrics that you're tracking and see, well, is it really worth me spending as much time on Instagram? You know, what are the what are the results from that? If it's, if I'm there to build community, that's one thing. But if I'm there to try and make sales and then not working, well, then where else potentially? Could I be? Or am I needing to tweak something in the way that I'm doing things? Am I not asking for the sale? Am I not putting a call to action? Those sorts of things. So it's about reflecting on what you're doing as well.

Suzanne Chadwick 14:28
Yeah, we're all about measuring stuff here for sure. Fantastic. And so if my listeners want to get more confident when it comes to writing copy, because that's what we're talking about today. I think it's a great start. What do we need to be thinking about doing actioning in order to kind of feel that confidence?

Emma McMillan 14:47
Yeah, I mean, first to say that I understand you know, it's not easy to write copy. It's, you can feel very much like you're putting yourself out there in a way that can feel quite uncomfortable, especially if you're the face of the business and a especially if like many of my clients, you've been told something in the past, like, you're not a great writer, or those sorts of things, and people get really in their heads about that. And I understand that. So often, the first thing that I'll do with someone is just to try and kind of pull them out of that, that headspace to kind of acknowledge, like, what has been said to you, is that something that's true, or is that something that we can kind of let go of, and almost sort of start fresh in a way. But I think there are a couple of really valuable things that people can do. And the first is to basically put your head down, block out what other people are doing. The easiest way to kind of lose your mojo is to be looking around and sort of saying, oh, such and such as putting yourself out, oh, gosh, I haven't posted for a week like now I'm feeling like I'm falling behind or, you know, I can't write it like that. So I would just say, just literally just take some time away from checking out what other people are doing. And just put your yarn head down. And just start somewhere, don't even start with you know, if you say writing an email, for example, don't start with the introduction to the email, just start somewhere in the middle, or even with your sort of final sentence, because something on the page is just going to help you to kind of get the words out, and then you just write around them, you know, follow away energy goes. So sometimes I'll sit down. And I think, Well, I'm really supposed to be writing socials today. But I'm just not feeling that this is what I'm going to write instead. So sometimes it's about acknowledging like, this is not where my energy is going, it's actually going in this other direction. I think something else that's really important to remember is that we can't create, unless we are exposing ourselves to ideas. And those sorts of ideas. And Inspiration can come in so many different ways, and in so many different places. So sometimes the best thing that you can do to get some ideas actually flowing is to go for a walk, or to just kind of have a flick through a magazine, or to put some music on even something that you wouldn't normally listen to, just to finish, shake up those neural pathways a bit and just get you thinking in different sorts of ways. They're all some kind of ways that that sort of start to get the juices flowing. But then it's also about acknowledging well, how do you actually like to capture your thoughts and ideas. Because if you're not someone who's comfortable just sitting and writing as the first step, like, I would just say grab out your phone and record yourself voice memo or use the voice to text function on your computer, have a conversation with someone and record it if you feel more comfortable actually talking about your ideas like that, because I think we can put so much pressure on ourselves when it comes to putting those words onto paper. Some something else to consider. And this is kind of a whole sort of separate topic in a sense tone of voice. But I would just say to you that you'll have the best results with your copy. If you write in a way that is conversational, if you write in a way that aligns with how you actually speak, as a person, because again, it's about that consistency. So when someone speaks to you on the phone, for example, you want it to feel like it's the same tone of voice that someone's read in your copy before, and not this kind of disjointed experience. So I think it's really important to use things like contractions in your writing. So sometimes what happens is we sit down and you know, we get really formal, my husband says this to me all the time. He says, I don't understand what happens. But I sit down to write an email at work. And he doesn't work in a corporate environment. And he says, But I get all formal. I don't know what happened. It's not how I talk. It's just how it comes out. You know, and so I think it's really important to just check yourself and after you've written something, you know, have you said that is instead of that, or have you said, we have instead of WAV and just actually read it aloud and see, does it sound natural? Does it sound conversational? Does it sound human? Because if it doesn't, it's not going to get the connection that you're really seeking to get with your prospects and with your audience with your community.

Suzanne Chadwick 19:03
Yeah, and I mean, I still I feel like I wrote something yesterday. And when I reread it, I'm like, that sounds really formal. And so yeah, just going back over it and just looking for how I can put some personality into it. Exactly like what you said, like I added some I was doing some sequences of email sequences yesterday, and putting some funny gifts in them and just putting a bit of personality and just things that I would say and I just think sometimes we bang things out, but it's worth kind of going back over them and sort of dying, you know, is this how I want it to sound could I make this more fun if that's what you want it to be if that's what your brand voice is, and and what else can I do with it here? But yeah, I think that's such an important thing. And I know so many people struggle with that.

Emma McMillan 19:56
Oh, for sure. And to say to that the first draft of anything, even if you're a copywriter is usually pretty ordinary. And that's fine. That's normal. That's, that's what we want. Because you can't Polish nothing, right? So it's about acknowledging that whatever comes out the first time is just the bones. And then it's really great to create some space, even if it's half an hour, or if you can leave it overnight, that's even better come back to it the next day with fresh eyes. And it's amazing what you'll be able to do to shape that copy. And to bring it to life, like you said, you know, put some personality into it, add a story, add an anecdote, something that actually makes it feel much more engaging. But you don't have to come up with all that stuff straightaway. The bones in that draft are so important, just to kind of get you on your way.

Suzanne Chadwick 20:43
Yeah, absolutely. And I do love like, I am a big sort of audible and podcast listener. And I just love listening to people talk about the topics I talk about, because it does kind of spark new ideas and new thoughts for me. And I think I, you know, I haven't thought about that or talked about that in a while, like, they might talk about something that I've talked about before. But I'm like, Ah, you know, that's definitely something I should talk more about. Because it is really relevant now. And so yeah, I think having those those voices around you, as long as they're inspiring and not kind of stifling is is so important, and it definitely helps you to form new thoughts and ideas as well. So yeah, I love that so good. What else should we be thinking about?

Emma McMillan 21:33
I think we've touched on it a little bit already. But I think always thinking about the call to action, when you've got copy and telling your audience basically, what do you want them to do next? So in the context of the copy that you're writing, what is the next step, we can't assume that people will know what we want them to do. And at the end of the day, we're all business owners, we all want people to work with us. So it's really important that we actually communicate what we do, and also how people can can work with us and how how that process happens. And I think that's something that, that sometimes people feel a little bit like, is salesy, or it's pushy, whatever. But actually, I think if we can think of it as something that's really helpful, that's really something that that just should come naturally, it should just, you know, become part of your process. Whenever you write a piece of copy just thinking about, it's not complete without a call to action, because otherwise, it's really just content. And it's not actually copy because it's not, you know, actually trying to convert in some way.

Suzanne Chadwick 22:33
Yeah, and I love that, that distinction between content and copy that you've just made. Because I do think that people like, well, if I just create content, then that's enough. But if it's not actually giving you what you want, or directing your clients to where to go, then it's just, it's a bit pointless, really, I mean, obviously, you want to build rapport, and you want to entertain, and you want to educate and all the rest of it. But yeah, I do think that if you want to become more confident with your copy, then also, I love what you just said, where it's just like you're being helpful. You're not being salesy, you're being helpful.

Emma McMillan 23:12
Yeah. And a call to action doesn't need to be a buy from me call to action, either. It could be like, if you love helpful tips, I put them in my newsletter every week, or, you know, if you liked this blog, you might also like this blog, so it's just actually, yeah, being really helpful and providing more value for somebody who's obviously interested enough in what you're writing to get to that point. Yeah, I think values is something I'd love to talk about a little bit as well, because I think values, something that can be great sort of fodder for our copy, I think, when we can sort of talk about the values in our business and how they show up sort of both internally and externally. I think it really gives you an opportunity to help to differentiate yourself. I think sometimes people are, you know, thinking how do I make myself sound different? How do I make myself stand out? Well, I think at the end of the day, you know, you are the only you, but it's what is important to you what people are going to get from the experience of working with you that can really help you to differentiate. And so, for me, I've always spent talking about my values, a really helpful way of getting people to understand you know, are we a right fit for each other? Do we, you know, have similar things in common. A lot of people have said, I really responded to when you talked about boundaries on your website, you know, I'm sure that puts certain people off. I'm sure there's people who've looked at my website and thought, I will never get in touch with her. She is just not aligned for me. But that's also okay as well because you have to think that with your copy, what you're wanting to do is attract and magnetize more of the right people but also repel the people who are not a good fit for you and it's not to be afraid of doing that. To sort of really plant your stake in the ground and sort of say, This is who I am This is how I do things. This is what my approach is, is how I work. If that's for you, amazing. Come on in. And if it's not for you, then that's great as well, somebody else will be.

Suzanne Chadwick 25:11
Yeah. And I think we have to do that. Like, I just think otherwise, you end up with a whole other clients knocking on your door where you're like, you're not actually who I really want to work with. So I think that really getting clear with your copy. And being specific rather than general is such an important thing to be able to do as well. And so when it comes to say, being more specific with our copy, Mr. Like, what, what things could we what exercises? Or what things could we do that could help us be more targeted with what we should be saying?

Emma McMillan 25:49
Yeah, well, I think there's always like a little test that I kind of do with myself where I think like, Am I making a statement that might polarize some people, and if so, then that's probably a good statement to be making, because at the same time, as you know, putting some people, you know, maybe offsides the wrong word, but maybe some people will realize, Oh, she's not for me. But if I say something that is really going to sort of speak to a particular type of audience, like when I recently sort of flipped my business around to talk from being a copywriter done for you, to being a copy coach done with you, like, I know, using that language is straightaway going to put some people off, because I think I don't want to do it with you. Like, I just want to, you know, have someone to Yeah, so, but I really had to be clear that that was who I was wanting to attract moving forward, if I was really committed to that idea. So I think it's about just acknowledging, who are your dream clients? And what would they really resonate with? And the best way that you can go about also finding out about what your dream clients, you know, will resonate with is actually by surveying your clients or customers yourself and actually finding out what is it about me, that you experienced when you worked with me? What was the transformation? Like, what did I do that was different to say, other service providers that you've worked with before? Because hearing it in your clients, or your customers, words can be so powerful, in really giving you a sense of how to attract more of those like minded clients? So I think if you haven't done any sort of customer research like that before, it's so so valuable, you can also interview clients who decided not to work with you and find out what was it that, you know, held them back? Or what was it that got them to make another decision to sort of just see, like, where you are positioned in your own market? And what it is that that you aren't doing, and are not doing? And just kind of owning, owning those results. And really leaning into them, I think is just super valuable as well. So I always survey clients at the end of a project for feedback form, which has a series of open ended questions, to really kind of get people to talk about, you know, what was going on in your business before we work together? You know, what was the process, like, what was valuable, and so on? And then, you know, what have you noticed since, and so really encouraging people to kind of talk through that transformation process. And often those words are the words that I'm using my copy, you know, what a lot of people don't realize is that copy. And I'm gonna give away a bit of a trade secret here. But a lot of copy is just organizing words that often come from other people. So when I work with a client, you know, that this client research informs a huge part of the project, usually, and so the clients words really end up coming front and center. Because if we're thinking we want to attract more of them, well, then it has to sound like something that would resonate with.

Suzanne Chadwick 28:50
Yeah. And so how often are you? So I know you're talking at the end of a project? How often would you be surveying your audience? So is it just clients you've worked with? Is it your subscriber list? Is that your followers? Like? Where could you get that kind of information from?

Emma McMillan 29:12
Oh, yeah, lots of different places, actually. So you could do it as a formal process as part of your offboarding. But you could also do it sort of, through projects. You could also do it on socials, you know, put up a poll, or get people to respond to a question. You could do it to your community, put something out to your subscribers. There are so many different ways you could organize to have phone calls or zooms with people to do it that way as well capture that sort of data in a conversation. Yet lots of different ways that you could do

Suzanne Chadwick 29:44
it. And what sort of questions would you ask? What sort of questions have you asked before?

Emma McMillan 29:50
Yeah, so I would ask things that are not leading questions. I really open questions. So why did you really love working with me?

How many how good I was. Yeah. Yeah, things like, you know, what was going on in your business before we work together is a really good one. Because what will happen in that situation is that people sort of sad to talk about all the pain points that they had got going on. Right. So that gives you that kind of information. And then to be able to talk about, well, what did you first notice when we started working together, and that's kind of like the beginning of that transformation. And then you might say, What was most valuable, which will kind of talk to more of a long term transformation, usually. And then I will probably only have about six questions in the whole survey, because you want to keep it to to less than about eight, just because people just don't engage with it otherwise. And I always have one at the end that says, you know, what other thoughts would you like to share? And it's really open. And all, you know, that's where I get the most interesting comments. And people can say all sorts of things in that space that might be, you know, might be a heaping on some praise. Or it might be like, I thought it was really interesting when you did this, or I've never had this experience before where this happened, or, and you kind of get those little nuggets of insight about what it is that makes your process different. So I think that's a really important question to include.

Suzanne Chadwick 31:14
I love it. That's so good. And I do think that the differentiation element is so important that a lot of people don't focus enough on. Like, I think that that, you know, if you can articulate why you're different there in your copy, then I think that it does stand out. You know, it doesn't sound like everybody else. Like you might be stating, you know, that even though, you know, you may have experienced this before, which is a bit general and most copywriters, or most whatever you do business coaches do this, I actually do that. And I think that being able to talk about that in a really direct way, once again, specific, getting specific, I think, is really powerful.

Emma McMillan 32:01
Yeah, I think so too. And I think it also makes for really interesting kind of discovery calls and those sorts of conversations, because people feel like they actually know a little bit about you, before they reach out. And if you kind of let them into your process, or, you know, share about your values and so on, people have got often a connection point where they can actually start to say, Oh, this is this is what particularly resonated for me. And this is, you know, this is what I've reached out. Yeah, so can be helpful that way.

Suzanne Chadwick 32:30
Yeah, absolutely. Then any other thoughts on how else we can become more confident with our writing our copy?

Emma McMillan 32:40
Practice, you've got to practice, you just got to do it, you've literally just got to turn up each day and write something. And like, I just like to set a timer, you know, a five minute timer, because how bad can five minutes be? Right? So just those three things that you think about first that purpose, the audience and the platform, and then just be like write five minutes, go and put a timer on. When you get to the end, you'll be surprised at what you came up with. And again, don't hit Publish straightaway, give it some space, come back to it. But you know, if you can do it in five minute bursts, you might even find by then you're on a roll, and you want to write for half an hour. And that's great. But it's just about doing it and getting it out there and getting in the habit of it. I think there was probably a year or so I didn't send out an email at all, because somehow I got into my head that the email was just such a big deal. Which feels ridiculous. Now, you know, this is going back a few years. And then as soon as I started emailing my community regularly, like people would write back and say, I loved this thought this was so helpful. And I just thought, that's what I'm doing. That's what an email is for. It's to build community, it's to provide value, like, I need to get over myself. And I think, as business owners, if we're going to put ourselves front and center, we just need to get over ourselves a little bit, and just need to put it out there.

Suzanne Chadwick 34:00
You're preaching to the converted here, Emma, I completely agree. And I do think I think that's really interesting, because people do feel like awkward and they do feel like people don't want to hear from them and things like that. And I think that that does stop a lot of people from writing. I had a client where she's like, I don't know how to like not spend an hour on a caption and I almost died. I was just like, and so I just said to her, give yourself five minutes, like 10 minutes, max, just, if it takes you a long time you it's too much. Like just have an idea and a thought and something helpful, useful, whatever it is. And I'm like five minutes. That's it, you know, and then put it out there. So I think it depends on what it is that you're writing. But I think that a lot of times we're either either overthinking it and so then it stops us as well because we're like, oh, it's gonna take me too long. It's too big a deal. Like you were just saying And otherwise, it is the whole thing of nobody wants to hear from me. Like, I know that I've had clients that have said, or I don't want to be just another email in somebody's inbox. And I said, but they asked for it, they asked for you to email their inbox, they signed up because they were interested in what it is that you had to say. And I just think even, you know, like, recognizing that, like, when I write, I'm writing to people who have chosen voluntarily to be here and receive this information. And if they don't want it, they'll just unsubscribe, write a caption, I write it to my followers who have voluntarily chosen to follow me to hear what I have to say. So I think that there is a mindset thing, like, when we're talking about create, like being more confident with your copy, I think almost that's where to start, like, who you're writing to, they want to hear from you. So feel confident that what you share is going to be a value, because that's why they signed up

Emma McMillan 36:05
totally. And whenever I sit down and write as well, I just keep one person in front of my mind, one person who I know will read it. And I just have their face in my mind. And I think that that's who I'm writing for. Because I think sometimes if we sit down and we think oh my god, I'm writing for everybody who's in my community, like that can feel overwhelming. But if we think like I'm writing for this one person, who I know is a follower, or who I know is gonna get my email. They're gonna read it, they're gonna have a smile on their face. Like, I think that just makes it feel so much more doable.

Suzanne Chadwick 36:37
Yeah, absolutely. So if you have not sent a subscriber email out, and you're listening to this podcast, do it. Absolutely. Do it the message.

Emma McMillan 36:48
Yeah. Afraid of unsubscribes either, you know, there's nothing wrong with an unsubscribe, you just want people in there who want to hear from you. And, yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick 36:57
yeah, I did it a while ago, I remember thinking, when people unsubscribe, I'm happy that they've unsubscribe, because they're obviously not my ideal clients. They're obviously not wanting to work with me or buy for me or be here. So that's totally cool. And it now leaves room for more people. And I don't have to pay for the extra, like people on my list who don't want to be. So I try to shift that and reframe it that it's not a negative, it's actually a positive. It means that people who I am emailing, they want to be here. They're interested.

Emma McMillan 37:31
Yep. Remember, it's that jewel of like repelling, and magnetizing.

Suzanne Chadwick 37:36
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So good. And so I think that we have covered quite a few key things that people can start to think about, and use. Is there anything else that you want to cover on this topic? Emma?

Emma McMillan 37:53
Just to say one final thought that might be useful for people who are, you know, struggling to create content around like their services or their approach, things like that is to think about, what are your frequently asked questions? What is it that people ask you all the time, because that can be just such great fodder for social media, for blogs, things like that is just to answer those frequently asked questions. So just get in the habit of noting them down when people ask them on Discovery calls, or when they pop into your inbox, you know, and and share that information as a really easy way for you to create content without having to think too much about it.

Suzanne Chadwick 38:29
Yeah, and I feel like I use plan, which is a scheduling tool. And I find that when I am I in a conversation or something like that, I'll just go in and write a quick caption on it that I might then use, like next week, or whenever, but just having somewhere. So I've got a spreadsheet as well as like just having my scheduling tool. And so I think just having a place, whether it's notes on your phone is another good one. Where you can write down those questions or conversations or stories or things like that, just as a little prompt, I think makes it so much easier as well, when you're looking for something to share that you've got like all of these options now, as to what you can talk about, that's going to be relevant and helpful to your audience and community. Absolutely. And just to think about how your energy works, when it comes to creating content, I mean, to me, I often sit down like once or twice a month, and I'll just batch for, you know, the next couple of weeks, because I know that I get those really creative bursts only kind of that often. And just to harness them when I do so I might set aside a half a day, you know, every couple of weeks, but not try and do it all the time. Because I just find I don't get into my flow doing it like that. So just to acknowledge the way that you best create content and to really lean into that as well. So yeah, I've got a spreadsheet like you do big sort of Google Doc and I've got a table that I have set up with my IBM and we just sort of do draft posts in there and so on So yeah, just having things ready to go when that mood strikes you?

Yeah, absolutely. And I do think my favorite tip today is just to keep writing. Like, the more you write, the easier it becomes, I do have a little folder, I'd have mentioned this before, I have a little folder in my inbox, which are great emails. And so when somebody sends a great email, and I think, Oh, that was a good one, then I take it, and I put it in that folder. And so sometimes I'll go and back and I'll read, like, read it again. And think why did I love that? Like, it was super direct, it was to the point, it was such a great story, like maybe somebody sent me a really long email, but it was a story. And I read the whole thing. And so I think it's just being inspired by other people who write really well has helped me to, to kind of think, well, how could I do that? Like, how could I kind of adopt that and be either really direct and to the point or tell a great story, or just the structure of the email was good, those sorts of things. So I feel like I'm always being inspired and learning from other people who I've subscribed to, obviously, for a reason, because I love their content. But I'm learning from them in the process, too. So that's also just a little hack that I have that that I really like, as well.

Emma McMillan 41:17
Yeah, I love that too. And I will quite often look at emails that have been sent to me and think, yeah, why did I click on the Open for that? So much stuff sits in my promo tab. But I just think sometimes there's a headline that really gets me and it's like, what was it about that headline? So I think we can all learn and be inspired from the copy that we get in our inboxes as well.

Suzanne Chadwick 41:37
Yeah, so good. Awesome. Well, Emma, thank you so much for sharing. Where can my audience find you and what have you got coming up?

Emma McMillan 41:46
Yes, so people can find me on my website. It's Macmillan coffee.com. I'm also on Instagram at Mr. Macmillan coffee. And at not just about coffee, I have a podcast all around conversations with other small business owners around language and connection and also lots of coffee tips. I do one on one coffee coaching, as I mentioned, and I also have a group program called the CO writing content crew, which is just first rounds kicking off actually this week of recording, which I'm super excited about. And it's going to run each term throughout the year. So that's a an eight week online group program for people to get copy confident with a community of others around them to do so. So very excited for that.

Suzanne Chadwick 42:27
Congrats. That's so exciting. Fantastic. Awesome. Well, make sure you go connect with Amma as well. But Emma, thanks so much for hanging out and teaching us all about how to get more confident with that copy.

Emma McMillan 42:37
My absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Suzanne Chadwick 42:42
Well, that's it for another week. It has been amazing to have you here as always, and remember to follow me on all socials at Sue's Chadwick. But thanks so much for listening. Until next time, have an awesome week and make sure you keep playing big and branding bold.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai