Suzanne Chadwick 

My guest today, May-Kay Sang. A launch strategist copywriter, podcast coach and coach who helps purpose-driven entrepreneurs to build their authority in business and discover their brand DNA so that they can thrive when they launch their signature course, as a launch strategist. She's at the frontline during course launches from start to finish. With five years of coaching under her belt, she's able to dig deep to understand the true desires, dreams and underlying motivations for her client's customers to turn into empowering copy. Outside of her one-on-one client work, she hosts the Quiet Rebels podcast, which is a dedicated space to help her listeners create the courage to own their voice message and work in both life and business without having to be the loudest person in the room. So I'm excited to talk about this topic. May-kay has a massive golfer herself when it comes to the number of podcasts she wants to be on. And if you follow me on Instagram, you may know that I've got a goal for myself to get on at least 50 podcasts in the next 12 months. So this topic when she hit me up was definitely of interest.

So we're going to be diving into some of the things that she's learned as she has gone for this massive target that she is obviously wanting to achieve. So I know that you are going to love some of these tips that she shares, especially if you're wanting to up your personal brand, get more exposure and connect with other people's audiences. Now before we dive in a couple of things.

Now if this is your first time here, I'm your host is Suz Chadwick and this podcast is brought to you by that connection exchange. And I work with women in business to help you build a confidently bold brand, articulate a powerful message and attract clients who want what you have. So you can play bigger and brand bolder. Now before we dive into this week's episode, which I know you're gonna love, I wanted to let you know that brand builders Academy is opening up for our next live round starting on the seventh of October. So put it in the diary. Yeah, this episode is going live on the 29th of August.

So we're about a month out. So I want you to start planning for those eight weeks that we're going to be working together. And if you've been trying to work out how to scale your business, get super clear on your message and get bolder with how you build your business, then this is for you. I'll be working with the amazing group of women who joined this live round over eight weeks. So I am telling you now, don't wait for next year. Don't think, oh, maybe I'll just hang on and wait till 2020 Because one, you'll get it at the current price that will be going up next year. But two, you can set yourself up this year so that you can make 2020 Epic. And when you start to do your planning at the beginning of 2020 you have got all the bits and pieces that you need. You've got the right mindset strategies, structures and systems to do the big things that you want and take your business to a whole new level. So head to the connection exchange.com forward slash BB a waitlist that's brand builders Academy BB a waitlist or just head to the connection exchange and you'll be able to see where you can click and join that waitlist.

And I'll be sending out an email in the next couple of weeks for pre registration so that you can get started on some of the work early before we dive into the week. clay content. If you've got any questions, hit me up on Instagram so that I can answer any of those questions for you. But I cannot wait for this live round there is so much more that we're diving into, you are going to walk away with some serious structures and strategies that you can follow stop feeling lost in your business. Stop trying to figure out what you're going to do next, or how you're going to grow. This is going to help you do it. Alrighty, so exciting. But without further ado, let's dive into this week's episode.

May-Kay, welcome to the brand builders love podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Now, we've sort of connected through Instagram, because Instagram is obviously where all relationships. Yes, in the DMS definitely in the DMS. Exactly. And

Suzanne Chadwick 

yeah, so we've had a few conversations in the DMS. And then I was looking at your profile, and I saw that you've got your podcast as well. And then we just sort of started chatting, and then you emailed me about being on my podcast, which I love. Awesome. Yeah, well, that's exactly what we'll be talking about today. So I wonder how many details we can share about that guy?

Suzanne Chadwick 

No, it's so good. And obviously, we are going to be talking about how to rapidly build your email list by pitching to podcast. And I think that this particular topic is going to be really interesting to my audience, because I know that they are really interested in potentially getting on podcast too, because that's where it's at at the moment. That's what everybody's listening to. So it's pretty exciting to think about, you know, how can I be using podcasting to grow my personal brand, my business brand. So I'm looking forward to speaking about that with you today. Because I know that you have had a challenge for yourself, which we'll get into in just a second. I love it. But But listen, before we get started, I'd love to know, for those of ministers who don't know, you give us a little bit of background, like, who are you? What do you do? What's your business? And how did you get here. So again, my name is Mary Kay sang. And I'm a law strategist and conversion copywriter. And I did not intend on being one ever, it just, it just naturally happened through the course of events. And it all started when I actually, I wouldn't say I dropped out of university or anything like that I do have a degree in psychology, but I'll tell you what the first day, every fiber of my being was telling me how this really wasn't so me. And that crushed me because I wanted to become a counselor at the time. And I just felt that the way I was taught about psychology, and I'm not saying psychology in itself is this way, it's just how I was taught. You know, human beings were like test subjects almost like if you're on one side of the scale, something's wrong with you, if you're on the other side, something's wrong with you. And then it just totally missed out the human touch that embracing them, you know, the individual differences of, of a person, and I just felt that was really missing. And it took me being in an abusive relationship actually, to actually really come out of my shell, because after that situation it was, it just dawned on me like, well, I've just been a people pleaser, my whole life. And we'll look where it's kind of gotten me. And I don't, I'm not really a huge fan of like the huge rebellion of, you know, oh, you know, screw you guys, I'm gonna do this or that I am actually a proponent of being a quiet rebel, which is actually the name of my own podcast. And basically what that means is just that when I feel that there is another way, I will take it, and it's not to hurt anyone. It's not to, you know, rub shoulders with the wrong people or anything like that. It's just because I finally wanted to listen to my intuition. And around that time through the power of Facebook ads. I was targeted perfectly by a coaching Academy. And when I read what coaching was about the sales messaging was on point and I just wanted it and I was all in so I studied to be a coach, and it was fantastic. But let me tell you that I struggled probably like how most coaches struggle when they when they get their certification that released into the wild and like, oh, there's nothing unique about me. I've got the same certification as so many other people. So how on earth am I going to stand out? So I'm not gonna lie. I did struggle during my early days and it took me actually want to challenge so challenge is obviously a theme for me. I want to challenge of seven days overcoming your fears. And just to give you a fun, a fun fear that I overcame was about asking people to do something crazy. So I got a group of guys in corporate suits to dancer the Gangnam Style with me.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Did you know These people, some of them, I kind of knew some of them I didn't. But even so like, because this is quite a, I wouldn't say high end. But let's say well established events company. And all these guys weren't like super formal and they closed like 10k deals and everything. And you wouldn't think that they'd be so open to dancing to the gang of really getting into taking spotlight. It was brilliant. Yeah, it was super fun. It was super fun that anyhow, because I went all in with that challenge, I really caught the eye of the, the mentor of that group, and I really wanted to work with him. And the price of that challenge was to work with him. So Well, by that, I mean, like for him to be my mentor. And because I went all in, um, he did pick me in the end. And it went from a mentorship in the first four months to an internship. But yeah, so that's kind of how it all happened. And so all the sales and marketing skills that was missing as a coach, I was learning it firsthand, with my mentor, because when I wound up working for him, we were just in the trenches for everything because I was his first team member, he had a huge list because his YouTube channel went viral. So his audience was already huge. And but the thing is, he didn't intend to have a business. So it just kind of came organically. So we had to do things fast and do it well. So we did 13 Life launches in one year. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. And the reason why it's possible was because, you know, we segmented the list really well. And so we didn't burn out the list when we're promoting the webinars all the time. So it seemed as if we weren't doing it a lot. So, Insider's tip for you, throughout that year, picked up so many skills, I picked up community management, one on one sales skills, even video animations, so many skills, and the one that really stood out for him that actually got him the most results was actually copywriting, or the live launch experience. It really gave me a leg up and I built my authority in that community and just naturally through, you know, his fellow peers, his fellow entrepreneurial peers, so I got a really good start. And then that's, that's how I got here. You know, today, and of course, I formalized my launch knowledge, because I learned it all informally in the trenches, but it's live experience. And I think that's quite rare to have that much. So a lot of time. And yes, I've learned some courses. I've got some badges and everything like that. I've got it too.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Gotta love a badge. Yeah. Gotta love a good badge. But yeah, that's how I got to where I am. Amazing.

Suzanne Chadwick 

That's so great. And so over this time, what do you feel has been either your biggest lesson, or what's the best thing that's kind of happened, or you've done to grow your business so far.

So I've just learned, just showing up consistently, that is key is just having the momentum of just being present. And it doesn't have to mean that you're doing a YouTube channel or, you know, jumping on stage all the time, it's just being there day in and day out, it's kind of like, you know, going to the gym twice a week for a whole year versus seven days a week for only two weeks of the year. You know, I mean, it's kind of like that you don't want to do it in, in like huge sprints. Like the effort behind it might be a sprint, but overall is you know, as cliche as it sounds, it is a marathon. And I do think that just showing up consistently has really made a difference for me.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Listen, I'm so keen to get into this topic with you. Because list building, I have to be honest with you, and I don't know what you were like when you started your business. I've had my business now for around about four years. And I feel like I've kind of done fits and spurts of list building. And I've known the whole time that list building is really important. And I've got a really big goal for myself at the moment around this building. And part of that goal is not just a number, but it's about consistency. It's about having a consistent focus on this building. Because there were times where I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna do Facebook lives all the time now and then I'm gonna do lots of Instagram now. And you know, and and so, I think that one I love podcasts and to this building's a big thing. And if for any of my audience, who have not started list building yet, this is a really good prompt for you to get it sorted because it makes such a huge difference as well. So really keen to get into it. But before we get into your tips, tell us about the challenge that you've given yourself when it comes to podcasts. Yes, okay. So I know that this number may freak some people out and I'll send you a note saying you have to do the same. And I do want to put out there that that number really didn't matter. It was actually the intention behind the number. So I gave myself a challenge. of pitching to, but I'd rather be reaching out to reaching out to 101 podcast hosts wants to be to guest on their podcast. And as you can probably tell from this conversation so far, I'm very much a go all in or don't do it at all. kind of person. Yeah, yeah, all or nothing. And then that can be a curse or a blessing, it really depends. But in this case, it was definitely a blessing. Because if I'm gonna do something, I'll do it right. And it's kind of like, I wish I could have done a better analogy for this. But it's like, when you wash the dishes, you're not gonna just, you're not just going to put a hot water and a sponge with no soap, you know, do it properly the first time, so you don't have to do it again.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Sounds like what my mother used to say. Exactly. So that is a challenge that I gave myself. And it's because, you know, there was a time of my business where, especially when I was going under rebrand. I just didn't show up. And I was just, I was just really comfortable in my creative cave. And I was just doing everything behind a screen. And I just wasn't showing up how I used to. And I just, and this is a piece of advice that I kept getting from for mentors of mine. They kept saying, Get on more podcasts get on well, God, God, and I was like, Okay, but how, and that is some information out there, but nothing as in depth as I would need it to be. And from my own experiences, learning launchers, for example, I've just thought, Do you know what I'm gonna get and learn this if I do it. So I just, I was still I just did it by trial and error. And I've actually managed to boil it down into a bit of a system actually, which is, which is great. And now I can actually help people to do the same thing. I actually shared the strategies with a client of mine, she sent seven pitches in one day, and then she got two yeses immediately, and she wouldn't know where to start, you know, without this, but yeah, that is a challenge that I set for myself. 101 podcast pitchers in 31 days. 31

Suzanne Chadwick 

days. Okay, so now for those of my listeners who follow me, you know that I'm, you know what I'm gonna say I've given myself a goal of 50 podcasts in 12 months. Oh my gosh, Suze, think bigger. But actually one day, so I might rethink my goal. Now I gave myself a goal of 35 speaking gigs, in the last year, which are 30 speaking gigs in the last year, which I did that now. I feel like my gosh, wow, 101 I might try and do that. Maybe I'm gonna go 50 podcasts. I'm gonna go 90 days. I mean, like, for you, because, like,

Suzanne Chadwick 

Wow, but I love that because you're pushing me. So I love that. That's all good. I love a bit of a challenge. Challenge. That's exciting. But I'm excited that you put it into a system. So I would love you to share your system for how you've rapidly built your email list by pitching to podcasts.

Okay, so the first step is all about being able to research podcasts that actually are in alignment with your brand. Because when I said 101, I got a bit of a mixed response from my mastermind peers. And it's not that they weren't pleased for me, like a lot of them were like, well, that's very courageous. And the others were like, well, you know, have you also thought about the quality because they were worried about the quality dropping, and that's totally understandable. But I set out on this challenge to be super intentional and on purpose with this answer. Because there's nothing that I really detest more than canned pitches that were clearly there's just clearly no thought in it. No presentation. In fact, I got my own podcasts pitch. The other day, someone who actually wanted to pitch me formally, ie by email, to my ear to jump on my podcast, and the topic was completely out of alignment. They didn't even say my name, they didn't even say my podcast, they didn't, they didn't even know what it was about it just completely off. And I just saw, Okay, interesting. And this is I want to use that as an example of what not to do, because I just was completely turned off. And even if they pitched me in the future, I'm very likely to say no, because of that first experience, and that's what's super important. Your first your first impression that our host has of you or their team has of you, you know, they have a VA or something is super important because if you get it wrong, then it's um, it's very, you just basically decrease your chances of ever getting on. So it's about being super intentional at the very beginning. You got to ask yourself, Okay, who am I reaching? Where is my ideal listener? How does my knowledge that I can share on a podcast How can I actually help them move forward? So just having that intention at the first, in the first place is super important and realizing that quality really does matter, because if you go on 100 podcast, but you know, you've got one, if you are a, I don't know, a business coach, and you're reaching out to your podcast hosts to, you know how to b2c sort of approach, you know, just directly to the customers, it's not going to help them, and it's not gonna help the audience, it's not gonna help you. So it's just not gonna help anyone, if you pitch to a podcast that's just completely out of alignment. So, yeah, that's where I would start off with so how to start researching this.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Gonna say, So where did you go to figure out which podcasts were right?

Yes, so first of all, I just naturally thought of the podcasts that I would love to be on. So of course, you know, the big, big, big, big podcast, I've been around for a long time, and ones that I personally listened to. So start off with, who you listen to, and who you would love, whose podcast you'd love to be on. I started there. And when you actually look up that podcast on your podcast app, or just on iTunes, or however you research podcasts, and subscribe to them, there's, there's always going to be a section at the bottom where it says, listeners also listen to love it. And that is as simple as that.

Suzanne Chadwick 

You just saying like I think I get suggestions. But I've not actually looked at that. To go and take a look at that. Because I just kind of get like when I listen to certain podcasts, then I get, you know, other podcasts that they're recommending to me. But I love that.

Yeah, it's as simple as that because at least there is a level of relevancy there. And that is, again, super important. You need to have some a podcast that is actually in relation to the kinds of things that you're interested in, as well as the things, the podcasts that you're interested in being on. So just as simple as that. And if you want to go bigger than that, then look at your peers who have been on other podcasts that you would love to be on. But that's how I started, I got super scrappy, because I had a big number to hit. So I thought too. So I have you know, several other peers or copywriters. Sometimes when they say on the podcast, I check it out and to see if there's lemon there. And what kind of new angle could I spend? I actually don't speak about copywriting very much. I speak more about launching, and podcast pitching now. But yeah, so that's how, you know, I got on something there. Sometimes that person may give you an intro. And all you need to say is, do you have any advice on how to, you know, reach out to x host? And normally they'll tell you how they did it. That's, that's more that's less invasive than saying that Oh, can you introduce me? Because if you come from that kind of energy, then you got to realize that someone is potentially putting their reputation on the line, because if they recommend the wrong person, that host can kind of, I wouldn't say blacklist them. But they can admit that oh,

Suzanne Chadwick 

That won't be trusted again, in the future potential. Exactly. So just having a softer approach, saying that, Oh, do you have any advice on how to reach out to this podcast host because I listened to your episode, though. It's awesome. And I'd love to be able to contribute. If you come from that place of wanting to offer value. And for it to be like a minimal risk sort of situation, then, you know, that's the way to go.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Yeah, that's so good. And when you get a good podcast pitch, what does it look like? Right?

So I personally haven't received a good pitch. I actually haven't I mean, the only guests who have come onto my podcast or seller podcast hosts who I've been on this and they want and we gone so well that we decide to do that. So like we're doing this, right? Yeah, we're doing that right now. Because I've got long, like pretty much straight away, which is awesome. And yeah, that's normally the only way someone can go on my podcast, I need to kind of know them. But anyhow, I have received, it actually shocked me. The response that I get on my pitches, I have actually had a woman, she's a PR, she was a previous PR agent, so she's not new to pitching at all. And then she'll say, Oh, my God, your pitch is so professional. Yes. So refreshing. I actually think I want to give you a hug, because it's so good. I mean,

Suzanne Chadwick 

this lady, what did you say? Right? As you can I can bring up that actual pitch. If you'd like to

Suzanne Chadwick 

Hear Your word for word. That would be great. Yeah, I mean, like to be honest. I as long as you lead with value first and I can go through the the elements that I always include in every pitch, because I think that's going to be super relevant, you know, to everyone who's listening right now, and we actually know what goes in to a good pitch. Because I really screwed up on my first go. And it's because I didn't know what to do. And actually, all I did was ask for feedback from my mentor. And she gave me a lot of feedback. And I basically crafted my own template. So what I'm about to read out in just a second, it, I wouldn't say, Please don't copy it word for word, because it is intent, you know, is from my own experiences, it's not always going to make sense for you. But I will give you a heads up. So, you

Suzanne Chadwick 

know, obviously, we need to put our own experience and what our own words and our own brand voice into it. But yeah, I'd love to hear what it is.

Yeah, so the first couple of paragraphs. So my pictures are less than 500 words normally around the 400. Mark. And it's because I'm just super intentional with it. So this is how I started like, Hi, I'm gonna say, Susan. Okay, so Hi, Susan. My name is Mary Kay sang, I'm a fellow podcaster on a parallel mission to you, helping women to find their voice and design a business that fits them, as opposed to them fitting themselves into a conventional box. I wanted to reach out to you today to ask if you think your podcast audience would benefit from having a loan strategist and copywriter as a guest on your podcast to talk about, and I inserted my topic. And then after that, and I think this is the kicker, I understand that your podcast mission is about providing educational content from the people who have been in the trenches in order to reach success in business. And I believe I fit the glove for this one. Now, that's just the start off. But tell me what you think so far.

Suzanne Chadwick 

I think that when you start to come back to people with what their mission is, who their audience is, how you can serve that audience, because you understand that audience, I think that that's, you know exactly what podcasters are looking for, you know, probably not dissimilar to you, I get pitched quite a lot, either by PR or directly. And I do get the generic ones where I'm just like, that's totally not like, not in alignment with what I talked about, or what my audience would be interested in. So I politely decline. But I think that the people who are like Suze, I love your podcast, the last episode on this was super interesting. And I love this guest and they named them. I think that you know, as your audience or women in business, this is exactly like you said, this, these are some of the topics that I could talk to them about. So I think that yeah, showing your interest that you understand and being able to talk about it, I think is a hook right there.

Yeah, definitely. And because I've actually heard, because I've actually asked this question to the podcast host. After we record the interview, I just asked him out of curiosity, like what made you say yes, to my pitch, I'm curious. And for any feedback, you know, if there's something that could have improved, and they, not very many of them had much improved, to be honest. I'm not saying that just to brag or anything, but

Suzanne Chadwick 

I just got it nailed. No. I think I've got a good foundation for sure. And so I do want to go through the elements of what it really means to actually have a very purposeful pitch. So always start with their name. Because and spell it right. You'd be surprised. Some people reached out to me that just don't spell my name wrong. And I'm like how you're applying it. Like if you're messaging me on Facebook, you can see my name as you're writing this message. I don't understand. So, to me, that immediately shows Oh, well, obviously they don't pay attention to details. I'm that strict. For me, personally, not all. I'll probably Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any, you know, grammar police. Yeah, so that's, that's the first thing. Well, we start with a name, add a personal touch as well. So there's a podcaster that reached out to and I knew that he loves Exploding Kittens, so he loved playing that game. You probably haven't heard of it before. I'm like well, in short, it is a guy game. We

Suzanne Chadwick 

don't condone animal cruelty here.

Sorry, but you have to the copywriter who wrote who like wrote everything on the cards was just awesome. But you know, it's nothing to do with animal cruelty. It's just cruelty for us as as a player again, no, it's a card game.

Suzanne Chadwick 

I had to cut. I've never heard of it. Oh, like Go Fish Exploding Kittens. Well, you don't use the same card as like, you know the Ace 2322 Ace. It's not those same playing cards. is a different deck of cards. But yeah, so I that information was inside us knowledge only from a podcast episode and a casual mention on social media. So I knew that was inside information I knew that would catch his attention. So I was like, Hey, I'm a fellow podcaster and a Exploding Kittens enthusiast. So. So it's just something like that. And they're like, oh, you know, it was they knew that about me. So obviously, they pay attention. And see the personalization is step one. But the most important thing is the level of relevancy. So everything that I mentioned before about being in alignment with podcasts that you're reaching out to, you need to showcase that through your topic idea, what you do as a business, and the and the little sub topics, the little ideas that you are proposing for an episode, because I've heard from some hosts, they say that, Oh, yeah, people reach out expecting me to come up with a topic. So it's kind of like, oh, you know, you can so benefit from having me on your podcast, you tell me what you want from me, it's kind of like that energy. And I can totally understand why it just turns people off, it will definitely turn myself off as well. So it's just you need to be able to personalize a search just to get them hurt, just to get them interested. So they know, it's not just a normal email, and then showcase the alignment of your show, with your business with your core topic idea and with your subtopics. And it does help to back it up. So if you've got any testimonials, you don't have to like embed them or in or anything like that. But especially if you've been on another podcast or a video show about this topic already. So you're showing that someone already valued your expertise in this. But anything to back it up. You don't need that. But it helps. Yeah. And what I love as well, and this is a feedback I've gotten, they love the no pressure sign off. So it's basically and whether or not I'm a good fit for your show. I do truly wish you continued success for your podcast and your business. Oh,

Suzanne Chadwick 

that's nice. Yeah, it's just, it's just nice. And then a PS section. Just add a little fun fact or something. Because who doesn't love reading a PS section?

Suzanne Chadwick 

That's such a copyrighted comment. It is it is. Well, you know, I've got Yeah, definitely get the section. Busy people scroll to that. And actually, there's one host that said yes to me. She said, Actually, my numbers on social media didn't actually reflect the normal requirements. And I've stabbed to the heart much.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Engagement numbers, people. Yeah, exactly. I know exactly that. I took it as champ anyway. But they said to me, even though that is the case, we made an exception for you, because of your pitch as well as your fabulous PPS section.

Suzanne Chadwick 

So my appeal, yes. What was your interesting fact? So this particular podcast host, I know that she likes Disney. And I know that she likes to laugh a lot, because she lost a lot in her solo episodes for a podcast. And I was like, Oh, and speaking of voices, because I gave her the link to my podcast and say, Oh, you want to check out my voice and see how it how run sort of thing. Here's my podcast. And then in the PBS section, it was, Oh, speaking of voices, if we do manage to speak, I'm happy to do my stitch impression from Disney's Lilo and Stitch. And she loved it. She was like, We love your PBS section. This is why we're saying yes to you, because you have so much personality, everything's relevant. And yeah, so it's just adding that extra flair of your personality as well. I found it has helped me personally.

Suzanne Chadwick 

I love that. And I do think that like for me whenever there is personal comments, or story or whatever it is points in it, it does make a difference.

Yeah, it does. And so for someone who I did consider myself a bit of a nobody to be honest, even though I've shown up before that, because when I did when I when I went on my hiatus in my creative cave, it just felt like I was just irrelevant again. And so I did come from a place of wondering that Oh, but who am I to do this, which actually lends itself into the next part of this conversation? How to overcome any mindset blocks, that will likely happen when you pitch?

Suzanne Chadwick 

Okay, all right. Let's dive into that. Because I do think, you know, even some of my audience who are fan girls and who I share all the time, who I know personally, and who are amazing, by being like I really wanted to pitch to you, but I felt like I felt like I couldn't or I didn't know what to say and I'm just like, oh my gosh, like I speak to you on a regular basis. That's interesting things. So I think that yeah, I think that mindset blocks are always there when we're looking to pitch ourselves.

Yes. And I knew that was going to happen because I know myself very well and I kind of self coached myself before I sent any pitches because basically I screwed up on my first pitch because I didn't come from that place of wanting to help. I kind of did it as a what's in it for me sort of thing, which is something you should never do. And I think my nerves definitely got the better of me and I was worried about coming across as too soft and everything. But people know me as basically my old team that I was on the manager, she was so sharp such she was like an executive type. And so she's like spear like, you know, Spears running into a bell sort of thing. And then she's come to me so many times to rewrite an email because she writes them too harsh. And then so I a phrase that was coined in my team at the point was like, oh, go to make a she needs to add fluffy marshmallows. So yeah, that's so like the spear just put a fluffy marshmallow like, there you go. So yeah, so that's kind of the approach that I do. Now. I wouldn't say it's too soft, but it's just more friendly. So humanizing

Suzanne Chadwick 

It, isn't it like people just want to be spoken to, in a normal way, like, I just an example is, I've been reaching out to senior executives for a specific event that's happening. And people are like, oh, when you do that, you don't get a response. I'm like, I get a response all the time. And it's like, because I'm like, Hey, Sarah, happy Friday, I just wanted to let you know about this event that's happening. And I thought it might be of interest. And also, it's an opportunity for you to network with your peers. If you're interested, just let me know. Otherwise, have an awesome day. Soos. And I just think people do this cut and paste of formal stuff. And it's just like, just like, pretend they're in front of you. And just talk to people like people. Yeah, that's, I think that if you can approach it like that people can feel through. Yeah, just been normal and nice. And, yeah. Yeah,

I think that's a really good point. And actually, a part of the mindset block is the, it's the fear of not coming across professional. Right. So that's why they most people stent, and they tend to stick to the format of the formality of like, dear sir, madam or something like that. Kind regards, or you're sincerely like, who really says that in real life? I mean, so that personality really does help and like just what I used to do. And actually, I still kind of do it. When I'm, when I'm actually reaching out to a specific host, I would pull up their picture. And as if I'm actually speaking to them, and I would write the email accordingly. So that's how I get into that space or wanting to pass and I say, Hey, is a fellow human not fellow robot? So we're not fellow robot? We're not robots, but it Yeah, not yet. We'll find a way to become half cyborg. But anyway. But yeah, so what helped me definitely, it was at the very beginning, before I sent out any pictures, I created what's called a credibility vault. So, you know, we don't, we're not very braggadocious in our daily lives, and I think is an attempt to become humble, but actually, you're just, you know, you're just not giving yourself permission to express your wins or anything like that very much. And I feel that that needs to change. So for me, I needed to prove to myself that I was worthy of being on this podcast, and is not it wasn't about my, you know, my online presence or anything like that. It was actually can I deliver results that's based on truth. So I had to go back to my launch experience. So when I was talking about launches, I had to, you know, relay back, you know, for my 13 launches in one year. And sometimes we talk about the other lunches I've been a part of, and even reaching out to you Sue's for me to even be credible to talk about this. I've been in the trenches myself, and I think that part and treat you so because I've actually been there and done it, I haven't just talked about it and done it, like once or twice. I've actually done all of this myself, and so that that's what makes me uniquely credible. And I've helped other people to do the same. So I thought, yeah, no, I can do this. So actually having a list of reasons why you are actually capable of delivering on your promise. So I literally just have a list of my past achievements and then I'll pluck the ones that are relevant for this specific pitch. And then it really helps to overcome the imposter syndrome and Also, I've also noticed that from speaking to podcast hosts and really getting to know the other side, because I am a host myself, I realized that you know, a lot of them who take their podcast super seriously, they do care about creating a quality show, and a consistent show as well. So we're actually offering an opportunity for them to, you know, continue with their concerns, consistency and the quality by actually offering some value to the audience. Because it's kind of like, a lot of people have that mindset of like, Oh, I'm bothering them. And I'm like, No, you're not, they can ignore your email, or they like, or you're not handcuffing them, forcing them into a corner, but I got to be on your podcast, you're not doing that. They have a choice. And whether they choose to is going to be down to your pitch and your relevancy. So just coming from that place of like, hey, I want to help if I can, if I can't, for you. That's okay. At least I tried. Yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Yeah. And can I be honest with you as well, is that when you pitched me, you had actually started to follow me on Insta. And you had been DMing. Me and you had been commenting on my post? And so I saw you because you, wouldn't you because I know a lot of I, I'm actually really proud of the fact that I know, most like I know most of that. Yeah, like I, you know, I and, and I know their businesses, and I look at them, and I speak to them, and you know, like a lot of my audience. So when you started connecting with me, I'm like, who's check you out. And then when you sent your pitch through, you had probably been interacting with me for at least a couple of weeks. So when I saw your name, I'm like, I know that name. And then I went, and I obviously saw your pitch, etc. So once again, I think just, you know, and I talked about this a lot is building the relationship with somebody because, you know, even today on a on Insta Live, somebody said, what if you want to connect with a business that's bigger than yours, or more established than yours, or whatever we perceive somebody to be, and I'm just talking about, they're still human. And you can just ask and just connect with people and have normal conversations like, you know, where they were not dealing with Gods here, like they just people who, you know, have maybe been doing things a little bit longer than you or are in a different industry from you, or whatever it is. So I think that the fact that you connected with me before you pitched meant that when I saw it come through, it felt a bit familiar.

Suzanne Chadwick 

yeah, but I think that that's worth thinking about doing if you want to connect with somebody, like maybe don't always go in cold. Yeah, definitely. I have noticed that. When I I've gotten several invites to podcast just through DMS, I actually didn't mention it at the time. Sometimes we geek out over having a podcast and and then I just asked a question. I was like, Oh, how's that going for you so far? And then they tend to skip over to my profile. And then they see I have my own and then I owe fellow podcaster? Because there is some reassurance in that because of the professional mic, for example. I mean, okay, for everyone listening, if you're gonna rock up to a podcast interview, have a professional mic, don't just do the earphones, because I've had a host the turn people away, even even if your pitch is good, everything like that, because at the end of the day, a podcast is an audio show. So rock up with a professional mic and be apart. Just, ya know, I'm glad that you brought that up, because I hadn't done that with everyone. Because it does take time. And I had to track all of that. But I think it's because we knew even before the challenge I knew of you anyway, I just hadn't had the courage to reach out to you. And then I saw I have my really scary bright colors and your fabulous smile and everything.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Really, like I think they really put people off the quad. Yeah, so like to me at one point, I was like, Well, I'm not sure if I should, because I'm just a little me. And I did have a fellow pa also contribute to the brand builders lab podcast. So for me, like there's some sense of familiarity, and I don't think I've ever mentioned her in the DMS. But for me that just felt like oh, you know, there is a level. It's kind of like business owners a day no matter how big they are. They don't want to be seen on the pedestal. Those are the ones who are going to be more responsive in the Instagram. And I tend to reach out to hosts who are more active on Instagram because it's also where I'm active. Because if you're going to reach out to a platform that you're not really active on, then naturally going to come over to your profile to see if you're legit. And if you're not really present then is it A little bit of a red flag. So I would reach out on the platform that you're most active on. So you actually have something to showcase if they were to go back to your profile just to check you out. Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick 

yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing, and I'd love to know your thoughts on this, too, but when somebody pitches me, I call it the rabbit hole. When somebody pitches me, I like go to the Lincoln bio, I check out their bio, the Lincoln bio, and I go to their website, and then I go to their about page, and I'm like, looking for a picture. And then I'm reading, you know, their brand story. And then I'm like, Well, you know, have they been on other podcasts? Or is there videos or something like that, just so that I can hear, how they present and how they talk and things like that. So which is kind of exactly what I did with you. Like, when you pitch me, I literally went straight to your podcast and listen to the episodes, because I'm like, Well, I have a certain brand voice. And I know my audience really well. And so, you know, I love actionable practical information and tips on how they can achieve a certain goal. And so that's what I've listened for, when I'm, I guess, being pitched by somebody who I haven't listened to or don't know that well. So I think that, you know, like you said, you kind of have a list of things that you've done that give you credibility. I think if you've got any other podcasts episode, including things like those links, just makes it easier for people to make a decision. Yeah, definitely. And so before you send out any pictures, make sure there's no, I don't know, crazy nights from when you're 18 Still public on your Facebook profile or something. I mean, I would never, I would never apply types. I don't have to worry about that. But all I can say is

Suzanne Chadwick 

I'm really glad that, like smartphones and Instagram, and that wasn't around when I was because I'm like, I'm totally profesh. Like you can't see anything before I was like 29, which is perfect. Yeah.

And then like, wipe the forehead. Yeah, so just just bear that in mind that your online presence, no matter how big or small it is, if someone is considering you, they are going to check you out, especially if they don't know you. Or if there's no format intro because if you if someone introduces you, you're naturally going to go in with a bit more of, you know, they're going to know you a little bit more, they're going to trust you a little bit more, because you are personally recommended. But not all of us have that opportunity. So if you're going to go in cold, and just pitch to someone who you actually personally haven't spoken to, they're naturally going to have that barrier up a little higher. So you're going to have to make it as easy as possible for them to trust you. And having that credibility vault of your past testimonials your past work. But mainly, I find that if I post a password, think of another podcast episode that I've been on to talk about a similar topic, not exactly the same. But similar topic. It does help with that, oh, well, they've been on another podcast that podcasting is pretty, you know, reputable. So, yeah, because at the end of the day, anytime that we are pitching to a host, and if they choose to take us on, they're taking a risk on you, and you have the opportunity to make or break their reputation, because well, they do have a choice to error or not, at the end of the day, but either way, we are given an opportunity. And, you know, they're putting their reputation on the line a little bit for you. Because what you do what you say is going to reflect on them if they air that episode. So you know, you want to make this as mutual of a win as you possibly can make sure you deliver value to them. It's not all about you. It's not all about stroking your ego, you do have, you know, you can talk about yourself, for sure. But at the end of the day, a podcast hosts what they want the most is for their audience to walk away feeling that they got value from

Suzanne Chadwick 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing as well is, you know, whilst numbers don't particularly matter, if you can not only do the pitch and give the suggestions of the topics, but actually say, you know, and once it goes live, I'll share it to my subscriber list on my socials, etc. But obviously a podcast podcaster is looking to access your audience as well as you're looking to access there's so when you're talking about the mutually beneficial opportunity, you know, I don't think it hurts to feel like this is what else it was. Well, so I think that that's, you know, really important too. Yeah, and before we move on, that is a question that I started asking recently to host and it really surprises them. So I asked him, How can I best share this episode so that you know this gets more reach when it goes live? I mean, is there anything I can do for you to to make that easier? And they're like, whoa, you know, no one's ever asked me that before or like Well, that's so kind of you because it It's quite clear then that when guests come on, some of them just leave. Oh, yeah, well, you've had my info now, good luck, you can do all the other heavy lifting when it goes live. But, you know, try, you know, you want that episode to get more downloads, right? So you know, help help the host?

Suzanne Chadwick 

Well, it's really fun. I mean, I I'm not sure what your process is, I mean, I felt I filled in your type form, which was, which was asking all the questions, but I, at the moment I've closed off application to my podcast because I had a lot coming in and I couldn't keep up with it. So I'm like, Okay, I kind of overdid it. And then I had to shut up because I had people emailing me and I'm like, oh, no, I'll create a form. And I'll put it on my website. And then I did that. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have to shut it. Because I've still got people I've got to get back to like, it's insane. Anyway, so but when I did create that form, it did have, you know, are you willing to share it? What are your social platforms? Where will you be sharing it? That sort of thing? Because it? I think it has to be mutual? Like, yes, I'm looking for guests. And yes, I'm looking for content. But you know, let's work together to make this a successful episode. Yeah, sorry. It's good to Yeah. Well, they are such good tips. Thank you so much for that. And I know that you obviously have, you know, had some pretty big goals yourself, as we were talking about. So where are you up to with your goals? How many of you sort of reached? Well, at the time, when this episode airs, I would have finished all of the pitching. And I've just learned so much along the way. So just want to be able to consolidate all of these ideas, these lessons and big mistakes to really help people and just really accelerate this process and do it right way, the first time, instead of just Googling wandering, like each part of the process, like finding it from different people, I just want to make it like one, just one resource for people to get started. So

Suzanne Chadwick 

Where can they find that resource? Yeah, so link in the show notes, but sort of just listening and they want to go to ad is there somewhere they can go to get that?

Yes, of course. So it's www dot Meki saying.com, forward slash podcast guide, and it's going to take you to my Insiders Guide to Getting on podcast. So it's not just the pitch is not just about the research, it's not just about how to like actually show up as a awesome guest is actually all of it. So I will try to make it as comprehensive as I can, so that people can just download it and run with it. And so that is sort of a starting point. And when you do register for that, you'll also be on a notifications list for my upcoming group program that is going live at in the mid September. And that's really take you from the process from A to Zed just for some people who need some extra hand holding and accountability. Because, you know, we all download freebies, and you know, sometimes it's like just collects digital dust on your desktop. So. So for those who really wants to take this seriously, and to really add this to their marketing plan, just to build a brand awareness, build their authority, build their list, etc, you know, that is an opportunity for them to, but you can get it all from the guide. And just to start and you'll naturally be notified when the program goes live. Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick 

amazing. And so you know, I mean, I talk about building your brand all the time. And I think podcasts are one of the best ways to do it, because you not only get access to somebody else's audience, but you really get your own message out there, too. And so I think that that step by step guide is gonna be so helpful. And like you said, if somebody's really serious about getting on with it, and using podcasts, specifically over the next 612, three months, whatever it is, then they should definitely check out the course too. So we will have all of those details and the links in the show notes. But where else can they find you as well online.

So I am so happy that when this episode airs that my brand new website is going to be up and running. I'm working on it since like November 2018. So it's been a long time coming. But everything is on there in regards to my own podcast as well, which is a quiet rebels podcast. So that's all about really helping you to create your courage to own your voice, your message and your worth in life and business. So I'd love it if like if you don't mind listening to this voice, and I'd invite I'd invite you to come over and just to check out the podcast is mindset based as well as strategy based. So it's a mix of both and some awesome guest interviews. So today, I'm super excited to have you on the podcast as well. So yeah, we'll definitely be chatting again. And the social media platform of choice that you're gonna find me the most present is definitely Instagram. I mean, that's how we connected to that.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Exactly. I love that. I love that. And yeah, and I think that that is another way just to be connecting as well, which we've spoken a little bit about is connecting with people that you really want to, I guess get on their podcasts and get to know them and see what's important to them and Yeah, I think Instagram is great. And yeah, obviously that's how we connected. And that's how I learned about us because it was really interesting. And I, and I definitely picked up when I saw all your messages and your likes and that and then you obviously emailed me. So I think that it's definitely worth connecting with people and in store. It's such a great platform.

Oh, yeah, I'm making genuine connections as well. I mean, I was just blown away by your intellect. First of all your your feed is like the most colorful food I've ever seen. And it's amazing and you have the personality to match it, you can just tell from the way that you speak the way that you are in your videos. And of course, your own podcast, as well as I just love that everything was just an alignment because not everyone would like that. And so I'm super excited to learn that from you when you are interviewing on my podcast as well.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Awesome. Very good. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I absolutely loved it. So many great tips. Thank you, I'm pretty much wait to share this. So yeah, and I look forward to connecting with the audience as well on your podcast. And I'll be sharing that with everybody when that goes live too. But make sure you check out all the links in the show notes, and connect and check out the amazing resource that's being offered today as well.

Thank you so much. And for those who are listening, you know, just thank you for making it to this fall in the episode. Awesome to connect with you again.

Suzanne Chadwick 

Well, I hope that you enjoyed that interview and that you've taken some tips, and you've got your notes and you can go on download, make his download, which outlines all of the things that we've talked about today. But thanks so much for listening and being here. If you enjoy this episode, as always, I'd love you to share it. And if you could leave a review on iTunes that's even better as well because that helps other people to find us. But as always, you can follow me on all social platforms at Suzanne Chadwick. But you know, I love to hang in stories. But until next time, have an awesome week and make sure you keep playing big and branding bold.