Suz Chadwick [00:00:05]:
Hey. Hey. Welcome back to the Brand Builders Lab podcast. Awesome to have you here. Today we are speaking with very good friend and biz buddy Kate McKibben from hello Funnels. As you know, March is all about sales. And one of the great things that you can set up in your business is funnels that work for you when you're asleep, when you're not working. And Kate, as you will hear in this podcast, she doesn't want to be known as the queen of funnels.

Suz Chadwick [00:00:34]:
She wants to be known as the dog's body of funnels. So that is what we're talking about today. Now, Kate has been in the online space for a long time. She actually started out way back in 2007 when she started her first online business, which was a fashion newsletter called Drop Dead Gorgeous Daily. And she went on to stay in the online space for quite a while. And then after starting her second business, which was Secret bloggers business, in 2018, she turned that business into hello Funnels. And so that is what she does. She helps business owners, online business owners to set up funnels that help them create automated sales.

Suz Chadwick [00:01:20]:
So I knew that I wanted to have a chat with her. I have to be honest. We dive straight in. She went to a conference recently called Click Funnels Live by Russell Brunson. It was like a five day event and I've been dying to find out all the goss and what she learned and all the rest of it. So when we start the podcast, we just kind of dive straight into that conversation. There's no, like, intro, so I thought I'd better give her a proper intro here. But listen, without further ado, let's dive into today's episode, which is all about the funnels that are working and that you need right now in your business.

Suz Chadwick [00:02:02]:
Hey, welcome back to the Brand Builders Lab podcast.

Kate McKibbin [00:02:05]:
Hey, thank you for having me back.

Suz Chadwick [00:02:07]:
I know we were just saying we definitely have had you on before, so we will have to share that episode in the show notes as well. But I know that you have just come back from Funnel Hackers Live, which I've been very excited to talk to you about. Let's go out for wine. Tell me all about it. So I've been excited to hear from you about this as well. So you and Vesna went off to Vegas and so how was was?

Kate McKibbin [00:02:34]:
Yeah, no, it was amazing. It was really cool. I've been to lots of marketing events before and so I kind of went in going, I know what it's going to be like the first day Will be mad. No one will come to anything. On the second or the third day we'll be able to go shopping in the afternoon. That was kind of my assumption.

Suz Chadwick [00:02:48]:
It was a three day.

Kate McKibbin [00:02:50]:
Well, it was five days.

Suz Chadwick [00:02:52]:
Oh.

Kate McKibbin [00:02:53]:
So all power to them. You got a lot of value for your 997 ticket. But you know, normally these things I say they start on the first day, but really it's networking, drinks. It's not actually any like trainings or things. And then the last day it might be like a. There's a coffee in the morning and then everyone goes off. No, it was five. Like they didn't release the schedule.

Kate McKibbin [00:03:13]:
They kind of. It was all very cloak and dagger. Like you didn't know. You knew when you had to be there, but then nothing else. And I think that was actually kind of genius from an event side of things because it. Normally you get the schedule, you look at it, you go, well, I'll miss that person. I don't care about them, whatever. So we'll go to these, we'll skip those and you know, we'll have a long lunch here.

Kate McKibbin [00:03:34]:
You got. No. So you just. You had to turn up every single session.

Suz Chadwick [00:03:37]:
They fomoed it.

Kate McKibbin [00:03:39]:
They did.

Suz Chadwick [00:03:39]:
They're like, well, I don't want to.

Kate McKibbin [00:03:40]:
Like to be the one that I really want to go to. So every session for the entire time it was packed, like Eric and everybody was there, which I've never seen in something like this before. Like it was pretty.

Suz Chadwick [00:03:52]:
How clever?

Kate McKibbin [00:03:53]:
Very clever. Because the other ones I've gone to have definitely been a bit more low key. But these ones, like before every speaker, like people were standing on their chairs with like glow sticks dancing. I'm like, this is like 10 in the morning, no one's had anything to drink. This is amazing.

Suz Chadwick [00:04:07]:
It's like Tony Robbins. It's like from 8am or 9am it's like full on.

Kate McKibbin [00:04:13]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, like he was one of the speakers, like. And so he's. They did that like it was about 25 minutes before he came on. Of everyone, you know, the pump up music and the lights and the la.

Suz Chadwick [00:04:23]:
Have dances on the stage.

Kate McKibbin [00:04:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in between. Yeah, it was a, it was a full experience. But yeah, it was very cool.

Suz Chadwick [00:04:31]:
Amazing. And so obviously you had all of these incredible speakers. What did you learn?

Kate McKibbin [00:04:39]:
Oh gosh, there's so many things. Like I literally wrote. I mean I use a remarkable. So I can't tell you pages because it's just like an infinite scroll. I think some of the Best things we learned was there was one speaker was called McCall Jones. She was definitely one of my favorites. I want to shout out to the girl speakers. I felt like they just had a bit more of a.

Kate McKibbin [00:04:56]:
I don't know, I just like the way they did it better. So they were very smart, but the women just had a bit more, I think, personality and yeah. Charisma. There was like dudes yelling at you army style, which I never appreciate. And then just other like super dweebs who I love who are just like bullet points and stats and. Yeah. And then the ladies all kind of put on a bit of show. But she was really talking about and like obviously don't want to steal her ip so maybe like people can go and check her out.

Kate McKibbin [00:05:25]:
But her thing is she calls it a mouse to cookie off fast stack, which is an idea around basically. It's like some kids book apparently about like if you give the mouse a cookie, it'll be like it'll want the next thing which is like, okay, well now it's got, now it's thirsty so it wants some milk. And now you give it some milk and now what does it want? And then once it's had that, now what does it want? So it was thinking about when you're mapping out your offer, whether you're selling it on a webinar or however you're gonna sell it and being like, okay, well when I'm gonna list out everything that you get, the first thing is like, what's that first problem that they have given the thing to solve that first problem? And then going, well, once you've got your offer, well, now you're gonna need a sales page. So here you're gonna have a, like, we're gonna throw in the sales page template. And then once you've got your sales page, well, of course you're gonna need people to look at the sales page. So we're gonna give you this traffic thing to drive traffic to your sales page. And then once you've got the people, then you wanna know, like. So it was just, I thought it was just a really clever way of when you are sitting down going, well, I know I've gotta put all this extra stuff in to make it more valuable.

Kate McKibbin [00:06:27]:
And sometimes we just kind of like raid our Google Drive and go, oh yeah, chuck that in, chuck that in. Add it all together. It all sounds amazing, but I just thought it was nice the way it was kind of like a little journey. And it was sort of. Yeah, I thought, I felt like as a user you just be like, oh, yeah, I do, I do, I do. Rather than just like, oh, that sounds fine. I don't know what hell that is, you know? So that was my. That was like number one, I think, as far as little takeaways.

Kate McKibbin [00:06:53]:
And then let's say what else was like the main things. I mean, obviously, you know, Tony Robbins, all about how you shop for your day. Very important, like how you can change your state and stuff like that, which I love all of that stuff. There was some really cool, like, Facebook ads things. So one Facebook ads conspiracy theory, which I thought was kind of interesting. And I think this is definitely more for people who are spending a lot with their Facebook ads. But the implication was that. Because obviously Facebook knows everything.

Kate McKibbin [00:07:28]:
Like, you put your pixels in and it can track everything. So Facebook knows how much you're earning, even if they're not all from Facebook ads. Because if you've got pixels on your sales page and if you've got it connected to your checkout and you've got like, Facebook is aware how much this account is earning. And the sort of. The assumption was that as you start getting to a certain point, it's going to start making your ads more expensive because it knows you can afford to pay for them.

Suz Chadwick [00:07:54]:
Wow.

Kate McKibbin [00:07:55]:
So the rest of any proof. Oh, and there never is with these.

Suz Chadwick [00:07:59]:
Things, you know, did they show proof?

Kate McKibbin [00:08:02]:
Okay, no. And Zuckerberg, if you're listening, I don't believe it. Obviously, I think you're amazing. Please keep my ads cheap. But the. Yeah, their suggestion was. And they said one thing. They've.

Kate McKibbin [00:08:13]:
Because this ads guy who got up and spoke is like, he does like, Matthew McConaughey's challenge ads. Like, where he had millions of people like, it was.

Suz Chadwick [00:08:21]:
Didn't Even know Matthew McConaughey had a challenge. But anyway.

Kate McKibbin [00:08:24]:
Oh, yeah, no, he went. He's. He's an online course creator. Didn't you know, like, he's just like, us, we should invite him around. Um, yeah. So they said that basically what you want to do is almost put. If you have multiple products, have a different pixel for every product, which I know starting now kind of get complex, but it just would. It just kind of silos it off.

Kate McKibbin [00:08:47]:
And it just means that rather than it being like Facebook going, you know, they've got. You know, they're spending all this money and they make all this. It's more like, oh, okay, well, this product makes this much. And that's. So it just. Apparently it helps to keep your ads cost down. So I thought that was that was interesting. And one of his other ad recommendations was if you are doing something live, a live challenge, obviously you want to spend a good proportion of your budget getting like the highest quality leads in as possible.

Kate McKibbin [00:09:14]:
But he said, also assign a bit of your budget to the people. And I think, I'm pretty sure he said it was like for engagement because you normally go for leads with something like that or sales if it was something paid. We said leave a part of your budget for cheap traffic. That's going to be like, like engagement traffic. Because they're going to be the people who come into your challenge. They're not going to buy, but they're going to be the ones in there commenting who are like, excited about everything and who are going to like, give you, like, you know, all this great engagement inside your challenge, which makes the people who are more likely to buy even more likely to buy. So I thought that was kind of interesting as well.

Suz Chadwick [00:09:52]:
There you go. Wow. So five days.

Kate McKibbin [00:09:56]:
Five days. By the end of it, I was just rented, like, if anyone says funnel to me again one more time, considering.

Suz Chadwick [00:10:09]:
Your business is hello, funnel. Yeah, that's a little.

Kate McKibbin [00:10:11]:
Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:10:12]:
But yeah, obviously that's what it's going to be a lot about because you're click funnels. And I did hear that Russell Brunson made a million dollar offer.

Kate McKibbin [00:10:22]:
He did, yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of. It was interesting to see, I guess, someone who's obviously been in the industry a long time, although I was surprised. ClickFunnels has only been around for 10 years. I feel like it's been around so much longer. Yeah, like, but anyway, they've only been around for 10 years and obviously done a lot in that time. But I think it's kind of like that journey that a lot of people have.

Kate McKibbin [00:10:44]:
We've had same business for a long time doing the same thing and you kind of get to a point where you're like. And particularly if the business is successful like that one, where you're either going to get somewhere where you go, like, I'm going to completely break it because I'm bored or I need to go off chasing bigger, different things. Like the, you know, like, figured this out, it's a machine that's working. And I think a lot of, you know, business owners in any kind of business, it's just like, we're very creative people. We're problem solvers by nature and if we've solved all the problems in our business, we will then go make new problems to solve. So, yeah, he's obviously gone off, and he's got his next bigger vision.

Suz Chadwick [00:11:26]:
I heard somebody else speaking about it, actually. I think it's more just testing the. The money mindset thing of you could make a million dollar offer if you were somebody with that audience, and it could fly, like, who knows?

Kate McKibbin [00:11:44]:
Yeah. And like, some of the people who go up and spoke were very much speaking about, you know, you need to kind of expand your. You know, it's always like, you need to expand your mindset and put your prices up and all that kind of jazz and, you know, so. And that person who did that, that particular speaker is one of the people who's bought one of those seats. So, you know, they're. They're living what they teach.

Suz Chadwick [00:12:04]:
Yeah. Just a spare mill. Okay, cool. All right, great. I was just being a bit curious. I'm like, what did you learn? What happened? Who talked so good? But obviously, you're here today because you are the queen of funnels. You should just, like, claim that.

Kate McKibbin [00:12:20]:
I think someone else says that, but that's.

Suz Chadwick [00:12:21]:
Oh, do they? I've never heard anybody else say it. Okay.

Kate McKibbin [00:12:24]:
So I'm happy to not be like, royalty. I'm just like, just the dog's body of funnels. That's my.

Suz Chadwick [00:12:32]:
Is that your claim to fame? I'm not sure it has the same ring, but sure, let's go with that. The dog's body of funnels. But I wanted to get you on because obviously March, we're talking all about sales. And I know that you've been. You're a tester. I always laugh because I do tell the story of when you send me spreadsheets and my head explodes, and I'm just like, oh, my God. So tech.

Kate McKibbin [00:12:56]:
But anyway, so my love language. But not everybody, you know, has that same.

Suz Chadwick [00:13:01]:
I want, like, I, I. So I want to know the information, but I don't want to get the information. Yes, yes.

Kate McKibbin [00:13:08]:
To be in there.

Suz Chadwick [00:13:08]:
I just want. I just want somebody else to get the information, interpret the information, and then tell me what we need to do. That's what I would like.

Kate McKibbin [00:13:18]:
Well, then I feel like there's actually just a chatgpt prompt in between us. And, you know, like, this is Kate's spreadsheet. Explain it to me like I'm in eighth grade.

Suz Chadwick [00:13:28]:
Yeah, okay. That sounds good. And so I wanted to talk to you today about a couple of things. Number one was, what have you been testing? What are you seeing? We're in March 2025 now when it comes to funnels, and then we're going to talk about what my listeners need to think about as, like, baseline, what they need to have in their business.

Kate McKibbin [00:13:49]:
Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:13:50]:
When it comes to funnels and what to think about. So what have you been testing? What have you been doing?

Kate McKibbin [00:13:57]:
I've, to be honest, I've gone back to basics. Like, I feel like, you know, there's a lot always, like, these new shiny things that come up with, like, funnels and stuff. But then at the end of the day, the things that seem to work best when I'm testing them, when I, you know, with my clients and with clients who I've had, who, you know, like, I check in with, like, alumni clients every couple of years and who are still, like, we've had clients be super successful and they still are growing. They're doing these kind of, like, real tried and true things. And so as far as, like, right now, like, number one for most people is the offer needs some kind of update. Like, and I think. And that's where a lot of testing kind of comes in. So you've got to be able to set yourself up in a.

Kate McKibbin [00:14:39]:
To be in a position where you can test things quickly without having to a big launch every time. And if it doesn't work in that launch, then you've just wasted months and months. And I think this is again, where having something that's either like a webinar every week or, you know, or a funnel that's running all the time allows you to be able to test. Because you've got this thing set up and it's not having to recreate the wheel and set up all this stuff. It's just like, all right, I'm just gonna, you know, once a week I'm gonna do a webinar, or I've got this funnel running and I'm just gonna let it run for a couple of weeks or however long it takes you to get maybe a hundred or so people through it, see how that goes. And if it's not where I want, then I'm going to make a tweak and then I'm going to run it again, and I'm going to make a tweak and run it again. Like, I think if anyone's listening and they've got an offer that sold really well before, and maybe it's not selling that well right now, that's kind of like the number one thing I would be focusing on. Because once you figure out, okay, what is that update I need to make to my offer? And okay, now I've got the offer that people are wanting in this new changed economy environment that we've got going on, then you can start to go, all right, now I know what the offer is.

Kate McKibbin [00:15:48]:
Now I can build the rest of my marketing and sales plan around it. But I think that a lot of people are kind of getting unstuck when they're still trying to do the big launches, the big, you know, whatevers that are sort of not particularly regular, and trying to spend a bunch on ads beforehand and not knowing if they're going to get the same results out the other side that they've done in previous years. So that would sort of be the first thing. And that's where I've been spending a lot of my own time is testing, like, yeah, just tweaks to our offer, like how and, and how can we get people to it as quickly as possible? So that's part number one. Once you've got, you're like, right, okay, I'm happy with how this thing is converting now. I'm always like, okay, I wonder how do we automate this? And once you can automate something, basically then you have an engine that, you know, generally works in a certain range and then you go, okay, well now how do I scale it? Like, that's kind of always my process. Like, get the offer right, get the engine right, and then get your sort of like profitable scaling plan. Right.

Suz Chadwick [00:16:52]:
So with the testing and the updating, I mean, I've seen you're doing quite a bit of chatgpt sort of stuff because that, that seems to work for your audience as well.

Kate McKibbin [00:17:02]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:17:03]:
And so when you're thinking about the update of the offer, what are some of your clients doing when it comes to, I guess, research on what they think? So are they just kind of coming up with things, testing it, seeing what works or not? Or are they speaking to their audience? Like, when you're adjusting your offer, what do you think's the best way? Because I know that these are kind of, I guess, lower price products that are leading into bigger things. That's what you're talking about when you're talking about updating your offer?

Kate McKibbin [00:17:33]:
Well, both, like, so, yeah, if it's your, you've got a high priced offer, it's like, okay, what's the best mechanism to sell that higher priced offer, like, without having to do a big launch. And so that's what I was thinking about, like, you know, running regular webinars and things like that. Not necessarily looking for big numbers. You're just looking to be like, okay, how do I get enough people on to see this each time to say did this one do better than the last one?

Suz Chadwick [00:17:58]:
And so are you finding like, are you doing or are you finding people that are running live webinars every week?

Kate McKibbin [00:18:06]:
Yeah, yeah, we've got some clients doing that who were doing that until they sort of hit that sweet spot where. So it's all my sort of like benchmark for an offer being sold on a live webinar is you want 10% of people who either attended the webinar or the replay to purchase. And if you're getting around about that, if you have a very high priced offer, it would probably be a lower number. But if you've got an offer sort of say between like two $300 up to even two to $3,000, anything in that range you should be able to get about a 10% conversion rate if the offer is right and the obviously the webinar is, is working. So you know, then obviously the trick is how do you get people in every week? And that's a hot. Like, you know, there's lots of different traffic strategies and stuff you can do. There's. It doesn't have to be webinars.

Kate McKibbin [00:18:53]:
It's not always the best solution, but they do still work really, really well.

Suz Chadwick [00:18:57]:
I was about to say like was there anything else that kind of came out of clickfunnels or anything that you're just seeing? Like what are, what are the conversion events? Is. Is it mainly just webinars?

Kate McKibbin [00:19:10]:
Webinars and webinars for anything in that price range is sort of above and beyond. Like unless you want to do a stupid crazy discount. And then for anything that's higher then it, you know, I mean from out of ClickFunnels They. The two things they sort of promote and they're two of my favorites as well is a paid, a regular paid workshop like Russell Brunson himself every month does his selling online challenge and that's, that's his currently his funnel into his like 10k program. So no, I don't. There's no sales calls or anything like that I'm pretty sure or maybe only for people who, you know, really need them. But you know that's, it's basically a funnel that's run. Cause it's all, you know, it's all set up but it just has a couple live components every month.

Kate McKibbin [00:19:55]:
Yeah. And he said, you know, he was. Because he was talking about that and when they started that the first couple of them didn't convert that well. So they, you know, made a tweak did it again. Made a tweak, did it again. And now, you know, they know what needs to be done for it to work well. And now they just, they just keep doing paid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:20:12]:
It's so interesting because I have to be honest, I think, and I, you know, we usually obviously have cash spikes when we do the live webinars, but I feel like a lot of people aren't doing them on a regular basis. Maybe just people I know who aren't doing it on a regular basis. They're kind of like, oh, well, I'll do one every few months, that sort of thing. But. But people who are getting regular sales in seem you. It sounds like they're doing it on a regular basis.

Kate McKibbin [00:20:42]:
Well, I think that's been the big shift. And the funny thing is it's actually like this is how people used to do it. And then it's almost like things. We got a bit lazy because things were a bit easy.

Suz Chadwick [00:20:53]:
Evergreen. Everything was evergreen, but everything was.

Kate McKibbin [00:20:57]:
You just would do it all the time. Like. And then I was like, oh, actually you could just do one big one every couple of months. Isn't that better? And when they were all working really easily, you know, in some cases it was because it can be boring and repetitive to do the same thing every week. Right. But, you know, but like, I've had a. One of my clients, she did her webinar nearly 50 times before she got it. And this is now a webinar that converts it almost like 20%.

Kate McKibbin [00:21:23]:
Like, it's amazing. She got it to 10%. She kept on going, just making a small tweak every time, and then eventually put it completely on evergreen. But through that process, cause these all skills, right? She learned how to be really, really good at webinars. And now that, like. And now she's trying to scale to, you know, multiple millions. And her plan is just to do more webinars. Like, you know, don't try and recreate the wheels.

Suz Chadwick [00:21:48]:
Live webinars live.

Kate McKibbin [00:21:50]:
So she's got evergreen ones running and that's scaling. But obviously through that she's building a really big list because there's, you know, they're running like tens of thousands of dollars of ads. And not every, every single person is obviously buying on that webinar. So then they're joining your list. So now what do you do with them? You still still need to do something for those people.

Suz Chadwick [00:22:09]:
And so is she doing different webinars?

Kate McKibbin [00:22:11]:
Yeah, so she's playing with different ones live. I don't think she's doing it weekly at the moment. But she did used to do them every single week. I think she used to do twice a week. And then.

Suz Chadwick [00:22:20]:
So the same webinar twice a week, but tweaking.

Kate McKibbin [00:22:24]:
Yeah, yeah. And then it was working too well. Well, sorry. It was working really well. And then she was scared to stop it. You know, like, it's like, okay, I've got this thing working really well now. I have consistent revenue coming in every week because I do this thing every Tuesday and Thursday. And if we put our employee hats back on two hours a week of work.

Suz Chadwick [00:22:43]:
I know, I know. Like, and it's already created and you've done it before.

Kate McKibbin [00:22:50]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're, we're creative, you know, entrepreneurs and we don't like doing the same thing over and over again. And that's why we don't have jobs for other people. But, you know, so that was when like, basically I think it was like a picture of like, she's like, I can't keep doing this. I'm. I feel like it's now getting worse because I'm bored of the presentation, so I don't have as much energy. And I was like, evergreen, go Evergreen. Oh, no, it wasn't.

Kate McKibbin [00:23:14]:
Like she's had that belief that everyone has that it's not going to convert as well. And I'm like, no, you're right, it doesn't convert as well. Evergreen. But you get a higher shop rate for Evergreen than you do live. So because people register and then they can't make it at that time when it's live. If it's Evergreen, they get to pick a time that suits them and it's usually within the next 24 hours. So the likelihood of them showing up is so much higher. And so what she did, she actually went hybrid to start with.

Kate McKibbin [00:23:41]:
So she recorded the training portion and the pitch portion of the webinar and then she was just on at the start, like welcoming everyone and she's like, I'm just gonna switch to the slides and then, you know, switch to the recording. Then came back to the Q and A at the end and that worked just as well. But then she was like, I'm really sick of listening to this thing now. Like. So then she split, tested her traffic. This is obviously a very risk averse person. And so she did 50% of traffic to like one. She kept like one time a week where she would do it with the hybrid.

Kate McKibbin [00:24:10]:
And then she was running 50% of traffic to Evergreen and it converted just the same. So she's like, oh, okay, well I feel safe to let that just happen now. But yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:24:20]:
And can I ask what was the price point of her program?

Kate McKibbin [00:24:23]:
500.

Suz Chadwick [00:24:24]:
Okay.

Kate McKibbin [00:24:25]:
So I mean it's, I mean for that, her particular audience, that's a good. Probably on the higher side of the pricing. And yeah, so it just kind of, you know, she gets cheap traffic. So she can have 500 price point if you have expensive traffic. Like you always have to do the backup napkin maths on these things. Like a standard kind of from registration to purchase on an evergreen webinar would be about 2%. So if you went and just kind of figured out your numbers and said, I know it cost me this amount to get someone to register for a webinar. And if you times that by 50 and that is not significantly less than the cost of your program, particularly the average initial cost, if lots of people are taking payment plans, then that's when you need to go, all right, now I need to look at having a front end offer, which is the other sort of thing.

Kate McKibbin [00:25:14]:
So some people and some offers particularly if you can get inexpensive traffic, the best funnel for them is going direct to whatever the sales mechanism is because obviously you're gonna get a lot more people through that way. But normally that's a lower priced offer anyway for most people. If your offer is either your market is more expensive. So like the market we're both in ads, like I would dream of the days of having a $1 lead. I don't think I've had those since the like the early 2000s. If you can go direct, it's always like simplest is best. A lot of people can't because it's just the ads costs are too high. So you're not going to get enough scalability.

Kate McKibbin [00:25:53]:
There's not going to be a space there and it's going to end up being a lot of work and effort for very little profit out the other end.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:00]:
Yeah.

Kate McKibbin [00:26:00]:
So that's when you start going, all right, well you need to pair up that conversion event. Like if that's the best conversion event for your offer, you need to put something in front of it to recoup the costs of your marketing because ads costs are going up. So it's like, like none of this stuff is, is new. But I think we just all sort.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:19]:
Of, we just need reminders.

Kate McKibbin [00:26:21]:
It's just. And so I mean the way the low ticket stuff is working at the moment I think is actually slightly different than how it's worked in the last few years because it's Actually gone back to how it used to work best at the start. It's insane. So again, low ticket offers have their pros and cons. If you're using them for list building. The problem that a lot of, so a lot of people go, all right, I'm going to start have a low ticket offer.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:45]:
So this is like a $27, $9, whatever.

Kate McKibbin [00:26:48]:
Yeah, exactly. And a lot of people go, this is going to be my solution to the expensive traffic problem. I'm going to do this for my list building. But the problem that created a whole new problem in that for most people the cost, like it's a break even type of thing.

Suz Chadwick [00:27:06]:
Right.

Kate McKibbin [00:27:06]:
Very few people are making like if you can make profit off your front end offer, amazing. But most people don't. It's just really there to cover its own costs. But if you think about it, if previously say you had a $50 ads budget a day and your leads costs were $5, that's giving you 10 people into your funnel into your list every single day. If you're now going and doing a low ticket offer, it probably costs you about $50 to get one lead. And most people aren't happy to 10x their ad spend even if it's breaking even. Because now you're spending $500 a day and you're getting the same number of people. Yes, you're getting it back.

Kate McKibbin [00:27:47]:
Like it's not a hard cost but it's like that mental barrier like oh my gosh, look at my ads budget so high. But it's just slows down your momentum. Like it just means that the number of people coming through everything, it's the same number of people, only you're just saving yourself 50 bucks a day and maybe not even because if you, if you have a couple of bad days and you don't get that positive. So whole new problem like, like this is a solution. Oh no, it's just another problem. So what I've seen working really well and I think this will probably make everyone actually feel really relieved because it's much simpler trying to tell us, tell us trying to get a low ticket offer, have a positive roas is actually like it's its own beast. Like it's, it's not. Some people stumble across it.

Kate McKibbin [00:28:32]:
Most people takes just infinite tweaking. But what's working better now is actually lead magnet to tripwire. My goodness, like we're back in the, you know, back in the 20s with like a 72 hour flash sale email sequence behind it like that. Because that kind of Gives you the best of both worlds and that your lead magnet costs are probably, you know, they, they're lower. So they're like if you $5, you're paying $5 a lead or as low as, you know, I think some people actually finding lead magnet costs are coming down quite a bit. We're getting about $2.50 leads at the.

Suz Chadwick [00:29:08]:
Moment, which again, on a freebie.

Kate McKibbin [00:29:10]:
On a freebie, yeah, yeah. Then you're, you know, then they're gonna land on a tripwire page. Now none of this gross 15 minute timer crap, we're not doing that. It's just like, hey, if you love this, we think and you want to go deeper. I've got this thing, it does have a discount, but the discount's not disappearing in 20 seconds. It's like, you know, because you're then going to give them like a 72 hour follow up sequence behind it and then you know, they buy or they don't buy. If they don't buy, you have that email sequence behind it with again you need to have a, you need to have a discount, you need to have a timer, otherwise people don't take action. And then those that do buy or go through that sequence and don't buy, then you can put them into your hey now, come to my webinar.

Kate McKibbin [00:29:51]:
You know, bit more warming up and whatnot in between. But that, yeah, just going back to that old school way of doing lead magnet tripwire means you still get, you know, a much higher number of leads coming in. You're still covering off your costs and you don't need to be quite as good and perfect with your sale pages and with your everything that you would need to be if you were trying to drive expensive traffic directly to a paid offer. Now again, you know, everyone's niche and whatever is slightly different. So you can always test doing like I always recommend people if they've got a low ticket offer, start out running some ads direct to it and some ads to a lead magnet and just compare, see which one's getting you the better results. But I reckon eight times out of 10 it's the lead magnet tripwire follow up which is just so old school. I love it.

Suz Chadwick [00:30:42]:
And just for those who don't understand what a tripwire is, so basically you go to the page and you're getting the freebie at that page but then the offer is also on that page.

Kate McKibbin [00:30:52]:
Yeah. So it's pretty much just like your low ticket of a sales page is there, but it's got a section at the top which is just like basically, hey, this is the next step. Or if you want to, like if your freebie was a, hey, here's a little chat GPT prompt or whatever it might be like, well now here's actually the, the lesson behind it and the templates. And the what like it's that next. It's got it. They have to be directly connected or it won't work. Yeah, yeah, it just. That can really help you to.

Kate McKibbin [00:31:22]:
And it's not a hard thing to do. Like as in not comparatively to creating a webinar or that those bigger funnels like application, all that stuff takes more time and output. If you've got the right ChatGPT prompts, you can get one of these things done in a day. So, you know.

Suz Chadwick [00:31:40]:
And how many front end offers do you have?

Kate McKibbin [00:31:44]:
We've been playing with lots.

Suz Chadwick [00:31:46]:
I feel like I see a lot.

Kate McKibbin [00:31:48]:
And I kind of think I'm addicted to it. Cause I find it fun.

Suz Chadwick [00:31:51]:
Okay.

Kate McKibbin [00:31:51]:
But the, the goal is I really want to have three ones that. Because anything that you're planning on doing evergreen ads to adds fatigue, right? So you almost want to have like, you know that you're going to get a certain amount of time out of something and then it's probably going to start to peter off and you just need to be able to swap it out for something else to have that kind of. To keep the variety going. Like even if you're, you know, your audience is millions, which most sort of adult audiences are. If you're running ads constantly, your budget gets big enough, they do start to kind of wear out. So yeah, my goal is to have three that are all converting at at least 5% so that we can just kind of be cycling through them a bit. But you don't have to. The good thing is you don't actually have to go and create three totally different things.

Kate McKibbin [00:32:39]:
Because when you have a low ticket, to get that low ticket to be profitable, you normally need to have the initial offer, an order bump and an upsell. Like so there's your three offers. So you just do, you know, one time you just mix them up in different combinations with each other and then yeah, you don't actually need nine offers. You can just have those same three, but just. Yeah. In different orders.

Suz Chadwick [00:33:04]:
Yeah, love it. And so I feel like that kind of covers a little bit. But when we're talking about what you need, like as a minimum, what like those are basically the ones. So we need like a lead magnet, a low ticket offer, maybe a couple to mix and match Yeah, I think.

Kate McKibbin [00:33:24]:
To get started, like if people are just wanting to. Because you don't want to go spending months setting something up and before you test it. So test it to. You're always testing through existing audience. And I would probably go out to the existing audience just direct to whatever your low ticket offer is. So before you try, worry about putting lead magnets or anything in front of it because that's going out to cold. But to your existing audience, test the low ticket offer just on its own. Like, you don't need to have the order bump, you don't need to have the upsell.

Kate McKibbin [00:33:53]:
Just go test it on its own and see if it gets like, if you send a $27 offer to your list, if you're not getting a bunch of sales immediately, then it's pretty good indicator of this hasn't hit. Like, this isn't because there is a little bit of like art to low ticket offers. And like they need to be really compelling and specific and like it's that kind of, you know, like the candy aisle kind of impulse buy thing. Like people need to be able to see it, understand what it is in 30 seconds and why. Probably less than 30 seconds. To be honest. Our attention spans are about like five seconds now, thanks to reels, those B roll reels that we all do. But if they come see it and go, oh, I get it and why I need it in that time, like, if there's any explaining involved, then yeah.

Kate McKibbin [00:34:42]:
So I would just. And this is what we've just been playing with. Like, what, what's something? Like what's a current problem? Like a small problem, but it's still a problem that your audience cares about. So like it might not be the. My pantry is not particularly organized. Like, yes, it's a small problem, but it's not my biggest pain point. Unless you're a home organizer and that's what your niche is and make maybe that is the biggest pain point for your audience. But yeah, something small, something specific and just like, how can you give them a quick and easy way to solve it? Because like the goal of these low ticket offers is you want them to get in, get a quick win and then be like, great, I want more.

Kate McKibbin [00:35:21]:
Like, that's the not. Oh, this is like a watered down version of your main program where it's just like, oh, this is what. They didn't actually teach me how to do this. They're just trying to sell me that. Like you don't want them to have that experience that's just going to Annoy them.

Suz Chadwick [00:35:35]:
Yeah.

Kate McKibbin [00:35:35]:
And you also don't want to go in there and completely solve all their problems for $27 when you're trying to then get them to come and do a more, you know. Although to be fair, if you can actually solve all their problems for $27 and you're trying to sell them something for $2,000 to do the same thing, you might need to change a $2,000 offer.

Suz Chadwick [00:35:52]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that the whole simplicity thing is a big one because I think people think, oh, I've got to build like this huge thing. And it's just like, it's not, it is just a simple win. And I think the other thing with low price products as well is that it's like you're teaching them and training them, your audience, that when you release something like this, if it does fix a problem quickly and it is consumable, like something that doesn't take two weeks to implement and it's really good value, then the next time you put something out, they're going to be like, I remember that was such good value and it helped me with this simple thing that I'm going to go buy this as well because there's somebody that I follow and whenever she puts something out, I always go and check it because I bought one or two of her products in the past and I'm always impressed. And so I also think it, whilst it doesn't need to be big, it just needs to be of high value. Yeah, that does solve a problem because then it kind of, it sets that positioning in their mind that whatever you put out is good value.

Kate McKibbin [00:37:02]:
Yes. Yeah. Like you, I. It's that trust building. Because I think at the moment, no, like, everyone's been, I mean like you and I, we've, we've all, we've all fought things.

Suz Chadwick [00:37:13]:
I bought something last year and I was just like, oh my God, this is not good. It was like a grand as well.

Kate McKibbin [00:37:20]:
Yeah. I could have bought at least a fancy car by this point with the number of things I bought that were not worth the digital paper they were, they were printed on like, and obviously like everyone, you know, I know everyone's out there. Well, not everyone. Most people out there trying their best. You know, some people have had bad advice around their pricing, whatever. But you know, but I think we all have, like, there's definitely a level of skepticism and it's only going to get worse with all like, I love ChatGPT. I have a, you know, I call Claude, my, my other husband and, but I think people are using these more and more to like just churn out stuff which hasn't, which isn't any good because it's just, it's the generic stuff that Chat GPT has been able to grab from the Internet and bam, that's now a program. So more than ever we're going to be competing with cheaper, crappier versions of things which is not really gonna help our trust building.

Kate McKibbin [00:38:14]:
So we do like anytime we can do anything to get a little bit of, you know, put some dollars in the trust piggy bank. And that's, that's why I think low ticket offers is, I mean anytime there's, there's a uncertain economy, low ticket offers go, you know, make a comeback. And I think that's why they really are right now. But it's for a good reason. Like they, you know, they do serve that purpose and like they say that someone who's bought from you before and had a good experience is however many times way more likely to go and purchase something else in the future. So.

Suz Chadwick [00:38:48]:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So good.

Kate McKibbin [00:38:51]:
Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:38:52]:
So I think that, I mean I see them all the time. We've got ours as well. I think that I've been wanting to play a little bit more with low priced products. We've got a couple but I'm like, I kind of want to do. There's a couple of other ideas that I've got. So I think it's just making sure that the idea that you've got, you know, is relevant to your audience at the moment. It's in line with who you are and what you do not like some rando thing that has nothing to do with like the rest of your business and just making sure like it's really good quality and keeping it simple like not over complicating it so that you don't. It's like something you start building and then you never finish.

Kate McKibbin [00:39:32]:
Yeah, yeah. Like you, like I literally was, I think like this feels like this is like just an ad for Chat GPT. I'm in no way affiliated but there's been like I had one that was like we actually planned for this month for March to be doing a completely different offer. Like the, the emails were written, everything was written and I was just like, I just don't like feel it. Like I just feel like it's a bit meh. And I had this other idea and then I was. When I. Every Sunday I go for a big walk by myself.

Kate McKibbin [00:40:07]:
It's like my mental health, no children allowed. Kind of time. And while I was walking, I was having conversation with chat jpt, as I do, and I was like, what do you think of this offer? I'm like, okay, well, how do we do it? And let's map it out and. All right, well, we'll need a sales page. Let's write the sales page. Like, while I was walking, I was like, blah, blah, blah. I wanted to say this and this and these are the pain points and all this stuff. And by the end of, like, that hour, I had the lead magnets for it.

Kate McKibbin [00:40:34]:
I had the sales page for it. I had, like, the emails to promote it. I got home and, like, you know, obviously, I had to still sit down, create the videos. And I've been doing those last couple of days, but it was up. It was done, like, less than two days. So, you know, we. We have the tools now to make this stuff much faster. So I think that's.

Suz Chadwick [00:40:53]:
Yeah, yeah. And I think just on that note, I know that there's a lot of. Well, not a lot, but there are people that are like, oh, you know, like, it's. It's churning out stuff. But it's like, if you're. If you're generating your ideas where you're like, okay, I want to create this. This is how I want it to look. This is what I want it to say.

Suz Chadwick [00:41:11]:
This is who it's for. Like, this is what I want to do with it. Like, that is you using the tool to bounce, to create, to evolve what it is that you already want to do. So I also just think that's where the tool comes in, and it's so handy because I'm kind of the same. I'm like, okay, these are all. This is my idea. This is what I want to do. Like, ask me questions, and then I answer those questions.

Suz Chadwick [00:41:35]:
And so it's still you, but using the tools that are available to you to make life a bit easier.

Kate McKibbin [00:41:41]:
Yeah, it's like. It's literally like you have an employee. Like, if you were Richard Branson, for example, and Richard Branson has an idea for a new company, he's gonna get his team in, and he's gonna have a meeting. He's like, right, this is my big vision. This is what I'm thinking. This is what I want us to do. This is the important thing. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Kate McKibbin [00:41:58]:
Go, execute. And his marketing team's gonna come up with ideas and messaging and whatever, and. And they're gonna bring it back to him, and he's gonna go, I like that. I Don't like that. Yep, I like that. Go like that's what it's doing. But you don't need to go and pay six figure salaries. And you know, and as much as it like, you know, I have friends who are copywriters and I know that they are, you know, hurting right now and I don't want to sort of diminish that at all.

Kate McKibbin [00:42:25]:
But you know, as we're evolving like small business owners, we've been pay, you know, we, we pay a lot for everything. Our tech rises have all gone like 3, 4, 5x over the last year and whatever. So I think if we can seize when, you know, when there is a silver lining to this stuff, you got to jump onto it, you got to make the most of it. We gotta, you know, adapt or die. So, you know, and I think there is definitely like it's no different to if you were briefing out your team. Like I've had copywriters on my team for years. I still do. They just do different things now.

Kate McKibbin [00:42:57]:
And so for me it'd be the same. I brief the copywriter. I'd normally record a like a loom going. This is what I want to talk about this month. I had this idea and I, you know, I think we should use this story and we should talk about this client and it's exactly the same. I just, I just do it in GPT and I get their results back immediately rather than two to three weeks time. So.

Suz Chadwick [00:43:20]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So interesting. Yeah. So, okay, cool. So I think that that gives us a little bit of a map as well as to some of the things to be thinking about. I love that you've tested it for us so that we can just know that that's what's working. So your lead magnet to tripwire with a 72 hour, you know, timer on maybe a discounted offer. We're going to be implementing that.

Suz Chadwick [00:43:43]:
Thanks Kate.

Kate McKibbin [00:43:45]:
And then you get your many chat sequences in Tripwire.

Suz Chadwick [00:43:48]:
We've been working on that too because we had all of ours were where we send people to the landing page to sign up. But now we obviously adjusted all of that so that we collect the email and then we send it so that we're list building all the time. And that has been amazing. That's been so good. I'm very happy with it.

Kate McKibbin [00:44:10]:
Yeah, it's the problem is at the moment like with the number of like, like so anytime we come up new offer like, okay, now we need to come up like three to five new lead magnets to promote that offer. So. And each one of those now needs a many chat sequence and then I'll have these bits of content that we're also going to have sending people to for this offer and they all need a bloody many chat sequence. So I really wish there was a faster way to. Because then they each need their own zap and then they each need their own activecampaign, you know, sequence to send out the actual thing. So if someone can please make that bit a bit faster, that would be amazing. But the rest of it is. Is really quick.

Suz Chadwick [00:44:45]:
Cool. Cool. Well, I think that's given us a lot to think about and hopefully some simple steps to implement as well. But for my listeners, where can they find you? We'll have all of your dates in the show notes anyway. But for those walking the dog, where do they find you?

Kate McKibbin [00:45:02]:
Come over to ellyfunnels on Instagram. It's probably the main one.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:07]:
I'm full.

Kate McKibbin [00:45:08]:
I'm going full nerd on AI for the next couple of months. So if you want to, like, I'm going to be sharing some prompts and stuff about some things we're using, so you can come and grab some of those. Or it's hellofinals co. Where you can. Yeah, we've got podcast episodes, programs, all of that. Good stuff.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:22]:
Yeah. What's your podcast called?

Kate McKibbin [00:45:23]:
It's called Doing It Online. And I am currently first time ever, like nearly three years. I am taking a sabbatical on my podcast because I've just too many other things to do, so.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:33]:
Fair enough, fair enough. I'm sure that there's lots of episodes to binge on there anyway.

Kate McKibbin [00:45:37]:
Yeah, good. 200 or so. So plenty of. Plenty of stuff to keep people busy.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:44]:
Awesome. Kate, thanks so much for hanging out. We will do one soon for sure.

Kate McKibbin [00:45:47]:
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:49]:
Bye.