I had a fantastic chat with Fatima Zahara, the marvelous Brand Pollinator. We explored brand strategy, world-building, and a whole lot more. Make yourself a cuppa, settle down, and let’s dive into some key takeaways!
You know that feeling when a book or a movie sweeps you off your feet, and you’re suddenly lost in another world? That’s the kind of emotional magic we want to create for our brand communities. I want you to feel excited, enthusiastic, and completely engrossed!
When you develop your brand story, think of it as creating a captivating narrative. People love connecting with real, authentic stories. They're drawn to founders who show vulnerability and struggle, just like in the ‘hero's journey'. It makes your brand relatable and inspires your audience. It's not just about selling; it's about building a deep, emotional connection.
Trust me; authenticity works wonders. It’s about honestly sharing your journey, which fosters loyalty among your audience, even if they aren’t your direct customers. Take Gymshark, for example. I’m a huge fan of their founders and everything they represent, even though I don't use their products. People appreciate openness and realness—a crucial ingredient for deeper connections.
One of my favorite topics Fatima and I discussed is “world-building.” Think of it like creating your brand’s very own movie world—just like Disney or Harry Potter. It’s about ensuring that everything, from your logo to your social media, conveys a cohesive narrative.
For instance, Apple has successfully built a powerful community around its products by initially connecting with creatives. They made these people feel seen and created a sense of belonging. It’s about more than just selling products; it’s about building launch events that people look forward to and feel a part of.
Every piece of content you create is like adding a coin to your brand piggy bank. Consistency in your branding allows people to recognise you instantly. Even if other brands try to mimic your style, the consistency of your narrative and style makes your brand stand out as the original.
Here's a golden nugget from Fatima: instead of those old-school funnels, think of creating “magnetic moments.” This is where your brand elements—your messaging, themes, visuals, and energy—work together cohesively to create impactful campaigns.
Think about the customer journey. It should be as exciting and dynamic as a visit to Willy Wonka’s factory, where it’s all about the experience, not just the end product. It’s about making the entry points, be it your Instagram, blog, or newsletter, intriguing enough to lock in your audience’s interest and keep them coming back for more.
I encourage all my listeners to step up and be leaders in their communities. It's about creating experiences that engage your audiences and build a loyal tribe. Remember, repetition helps in branding. Consistency across all your brand touchpoints makes you memorable and trustworthy.
Another gem from our chat is about the balance between visuals and storytelling. Fatima highlighted brands that position themselves with “timeless” and “classic” styles against the fast-fashion trend. Consistency in theme and message reinforces your brand’s timeless appeal.
And let's not forget the fun aspect. Building your brand should be enjoyable. Fatima’s upcoming course, “Brand Tea Party”, is a perfect example. It uses the metaphor of hosting a tea party to make brand-building more engaging and relatable. Let’s add some whimsy and fun into our branding journeys!
Remember, building a brand is a marathon, not a sprint. It’s like nurturing a garden—you have to tend to it, diversify, and let it flourish over time. It’s all about creating a sustainable and rich experience for your audience.
Website: https://www.fatimazehra.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fatimazehraco/
workshop: https://www.fatimazehra.co/steep
Suz Chadwick [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Brand Builders Lab podcast. I'm your host, Suz Chadwick, certified business and mindset coach, author and speaker. Each week we'll be talking about simple but powerful business and mindset strategies that will help you build a lean, clean and profitable business so you can learn to get out of your own way and pay yourself more. Forget average. It's time to level up. Hello, my beauties. How are you? Welcome back to the Brand Builders Lab podcast. Amazing to have you here.
Suz Chadwick [00:00:30]:
I am sue, super excited to share today's episode with you. I am chatting with Brand Pollinator. It is a thing. Fatima Zahara. She was somebody that I met during the Clubhouse days. She's a brand strategist. And there's something that she's been talking about that we're going to talk about on the podcast today that I was just like, oh, my gosh, tell me more. I need to know.
Suz Chadwick [00:00:56]:
And can I tell you, this conversation does not disappoint. We talk about all the brands we're loving, why we're loving them, how you can build brand worlds for your business that help you build community and help to create stickiness and magnetism for your audience. So I know you are going to love this episode because I did. I will be listening to it again. I thought it was awesome, but just a quick little intro is that Fatima works with her clients through her signature world building approach. And she helps creatives swirlies transform scattered marketing into an evergreen sales garden that attracts dream clients as natural as flowers draw bees. She weaves an enchanting brand world where clients feel at home and never want to leave. And she cultivates a flourishing brand that grows with every season, reflecting all the magic you bring.
Suz Chadwick [00:01:53]:
So this is going to be a magical conversation. So let's dive straight in. Oh, Fatima. Welcome to the Brand Builders Lab podcast.
Fatima Zahara [00:02:05]:
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Suz Chadwick [00:02:08]:
I know. So good. Now, for those of you who are old school, been around for a long time, we actually met on Clubhouse, which feels like a billion years ago now.
Fatima Zahara [00:02:17]:
Yeah. And I still think about that time was. I feel like that was my golden period because I got to meet such creative, amazing creative people like yourself. And sometimes I want to go back to that time. It was like three, four years ago. It was like five years ago. But it was a good time.
Suz Chadwick [00:02:33]:
It was so good, I think, like just the conversations and the connections and like, it was just so good. We used to run like branding rooms together and people would come in and ask questions and we talk about brand journey and all the rest of it. And we could just vibe with people from all over the world who just loved the same things that we did. And it was so good. I just don't feel like, I don't know, it's just like, not there anymore. It's just like there's a void. I don't think that there's anything that's like it now.
Fatima Zahara [00:03:04]:
Yeah, no, I agree. And honestly, I was just even reflecting on that time because, you know, I was starting in this, like, brand building journey myself as an expert, and I realized that while like joining these rooms and talking about brand building, I was learning more than I was teaching. And just like, you know, collaborating with people like you and other amazing experts in the, in the industry. For me, I was like, wow, this is so expansive in all kind of like, ways. Like, I am teaching, but then I'm also learning and there are people asking me questions that I didn't think about before. It was a very all encompassing, interactive kind of like, space. And I really wish it came back, but at the same time, like, okay, it was great while it lasted, so I'm grateful for that, but I wish it didn't die off as quickly as it did.
Suz Chadwick [00:03:53]:
Yeah, I know. Anyway, all right, cool. Well, at least we made the connections, which I think is so good. And I'm still in contact with so many people from the clubhouse days. It's even a cool name. But listen, for my audience that don't know you, give us a little bit about you and where you came from with your business journey and what you're doing now.
Fatima Zahara [00:04:15]:
Yeah, so I feel like every time someone asked me this question, I go, tell us about your journey. I get a bit confused because it's been such a long winded way. As I got to where I am today, just going back to my early days. I graduated with a degree in bachelor's and commerce and I was like, I'm going to be this business person. But then I always was a creative person and I was always trying to find that sweet spot. So I went back to school and I got a bachelor's in design, but then was missing the analytical strategic part. So worked with a lot of, like, startups at the time because they help. They allow you to wear a lot of different hats.
Fatima Zahara [00:04:52]:
So I wore a lot of different hats. And eventually it got to the point where I realized that, hey, I want to build brands because it allows me to wear all these different hats of like, being a creative, being a strategist, being an analytical person. And so I started my studio in 2020, took the leap like a lot of us who started the business during the pandemic. And this was also the time where I joined Clubhouse. And I got to meet a lot of people such as yourself and saw what, what amazing things you guys were doing. And my studio grew. I came to a point where I completely stopped needing to market my business online. So I went a little offline and just worked with great organizations and startups and stuff like that.
Fatima Zahara [00:05:37]:
And I realized that while I love working in organizations and startups, I missed the Clubhouse element where I was talking to people, I was interacting with people, I was talking about what I love the most, which is building brands and storytelling. So now I'm basically pivoting to creator brand, where I'm just like, creating content around brand building. I've recently come up with, not I haven't come up with myself, but I've gotten into this niche world of brand world building, which I feel is the new wave or the new revolution in brand building. So that has been really exciting as I'm like, exploring this realm and talking to experts who are also, like, exploring this. So, yeah, that's been my journey in a nutshell for the last, like, 10 years. But it's been exciting and I'm glad to be here.
Suz Chadwick [00:06:25]:
Yeah, amazing. So good. Well, that's what we're going to be talking about today, which is the customer journey and world building and all the rest of it. I think I saw you talking about it either on Instagram or TikTok, one of the platforms, and I was like, oh, tell me more about that. And so I feel like, you know, we're at the end of 2024 as we're recording this and we're coming into a new year, and I think that the market has shifted massively. I think that the way in which, you know, the whole. There's such a blur between the entrepreneur and the content creator and the influencer and the all the rest of it. But at the end of the day, it's really about thinking, you know, what is it that I need to be doing within my business to continue to build my brand? Like, what is working? What's not working? How are we connecting with our customers in different ways as well? And so I would love you to talk to us about what we need to be thinking about when we're looking at building our brand in 2025 and how we really bring our customers on that journey with us.
Fatima Zahara [00:07:28]:
No, so this is funny because I was having this conversation multiple times this week. And the thing is that, you know, I wouldn't say a lot of us, but like a lot of us I Guess started in 2020 and we were thinking about like, oh, we just have to show up a lot. The more we show up, the more people are going to see our message. And it's more of a visibility thing, it's a numbers game and that way we're going to stay top of mind and people are going to buy from us. And they did. So that was a thing where coaches were blowing up, service providers are blowing up because all they were doing was showing up on stories on TikTok, on Reels and people were buying. But then over time a lot of us, you know, didn't have a great experience buying from certain service providers or the, you know, the environment shifted. We now have TikTok, we have Threads, we have all these different platforms.
Fatima Zahara [00:08:18]:
We also just as consumers becoming more and more, I guess, intelligent or wary of our decisions.
Suz Chadwick [00:08:25]:
I was thinking jaded.
Fatima Zahara [00:08:27]:
Yeah, jaded. Yeah. Because I was one of those, right? Because I'm like, I'm seeing this person doing all these fun tick tocks and she's like claiming that she's making 10k months, she's making all of this money and I bought from her and then it was not great. I'm like, wait, what did I fall for this? But I thought maybe it was just my one time thing, like I made a mistake, then it happened again and it was not just me, it was other people too. They're falling for these marketing tactics that are not working anymore and they realize this is all a fad, right? And now we feel jaded. So we are more wary, we're more, we don't want to just buy into the next hype, we want to be more intentional. And this is why I have realized that the brands that are, you know, tapping into that emotional element, that empathy, empathetic element, they are the ones that are thriving right now. And the brands who are not doing that, who are just following the trends and just like feeding into the algorithm, you know, using the typical icky tactics, they might make like short term gains, but in the long term it's just not working.
Fatima Zahara [00:09:32]:
And I was also looking on a lot, like looking at a lot of posts this morning where a lot of people who launched this week are realizing they didn't make as many sales as they did last launch. And a lot of people are talking around it and it comes. And the thing is now is that people are taking longer to buy so if you, if it took you two weeks to launch your program, your course, your service, now it's taking you two months and people are taking longer to be convinced. So you need to come up with more like email sequences or more warming up type of like engagement tactic in your branding. And if you look at all these things, they are all indicating that our dream clients, our customers, they want more than just a transaction. They don't want you to just sell an offer and they give you the money and just ends there. They want to be part of something bigger. And the brands that are hopping on that consumer psychology are the ones that are starting to gain momentum.
Fatima Zahara [00:10:33]:
And I feel like it's going to be the next wave of marketing and I feel like it's going to be more long term than the previous one, which was more tactics based.
Suz Chadwick [00:10:43]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, I was talking to clients this morning on, on one of our calls and I was just saying the thing that you're really wanting to do from a personal brand perspective is that it's not about the information that you're sharing because we can get information from anywhere, but it's really about how you deliver the information, how you explain it. Because I've had clients that come to me and they say, I love you, because the way that you explain things works for my brain, which I think is really important for us to understand how we differentiate ourselves based on what our clients come to us for and the experience that we give them as well. And I do think that people are so much savvier now, like they're not just going to buy anything. And so I think it's important for us to really understand where the consumer is, what it is they're making decisions on, and then how we tailor that to the way in which we're communicating our offers as well. And I think you know, even one thing for me, like I'm launching again in February next year. What are my programs? And right now in my, in my mind, I'm like, right from now until we launch in February, I like have a marketing strategy that is kind of 60 days, you know, where it's not like I think, oh, tomorrow I'm going to launch and all of a sudden I'm going to have all of these clients. It's like you've got to remind your clients like, or your, your audience what's coming.
Suz Chadwick [00:12:12]:
You've got to attract new audience as well. And so I think that that longer term strategy is where you're building that connection, that audience that trust and we've just got to be thinking about things differently. Yeah. When, when we were in the COVID everybody had money because nobody was doing anything else. Kind of boom. It's, you know, it's been really different for the last couple of years now where we just have to think a bit more strategically and more relationship based too.
Fatima Zahara [00:12:41]:
Yeah. And the other thing is also like, you know, just going back to you were talking about how you finding your client who came to you was like, you know, the reason I liked you or went with you was because of your point of view. And that's so important because now there's AI in the mix. Right. Like I can ask ChatGPT or Claude, how do you build a brand? Right. Like what is the best tactic? And most likely it's going to come up with a really amazing strategic concept. But a lot of times like there's more to a concept than like the execution is a whole other thing and understanding that strategy is a whole other thing. Right.
Fatima Zahara [00:13:20]:
So this is why empathy is such a, it's a more important element now than you just being tactical, you're being strategic. Right. Like I can come up with a billion ideas for my clients, but if it doesn't align with them the way they work, with their energetic blueprint, they're not going to be able to execute that and they're not going to feel like I see them or understand them. And there's always this disconnect, right? So like we can go to AI and ask it to help us, but we are seeking for that human connection. You know, even like looking at brands that not even in the coaching or service provider space, like Taylor Swift, she just like with the ERAS tour, like she became this big thing and she became a billionaire overnight. But people might see like, oh, it was this hype that she built, but it was years and years and years of community building, of, you know, Swifties, the world she created. Right? So it's that like you said, you're taking 60 days to launch this new thing because it takes longer now because people want to be part of something that they feel connected to and you can't do that overnight. You can't just be like, hey guys, like I made 10k months, like, I'll help you.
Fatima Zahara [00:14:27]:
And they're like, no, been there, done that. It's not something I want to be part of. But if you create something that's more magnetic and deeper than just making money or selling your offers or whatever else you're selling, people are going to buy into that like the emotional element. And that's what I'm seeing now, especially after the whole pandemic thing. Right. We tried all of these things. We also didn't know what we didn't know. So if someone's like, hey, I did this, you can also do that.
Fatima Zahara [00:14:53]:
We didn't know any better. So we're like, okay, I'll hop on this bandwagon. We learned from each other too. Like people were sharing their stories, like, oh, I got burned by this coach or by the service provider. Well, I started this like business and people said it's going to be easy. It's not. And now that we're more aware, you're not going to buy into any hype. You want to be seen, heard and understood truly.
Fatima Zahara [00:15:14]:
And that's where the buyer journey comes in. That's where the customer experience comes in. Because if your ideal client doesn't feel like they belong in your world, quote unquote world, they're not going to stick around. Because, like, why? Like, I want to feel that belonging over feeling like, oh, I've made it. You know what I mean?
Suz Chadwick [00:15:32]:
Yeah. And I think the last thing I just want to touch on before we dive into, into the buyer's journey and creating worlds is I feel like that with Odd Muse at the moment. Like, I'm obsessed. I don't know if you know the brand, but she's a London based entrepreneur. She's got a clothing brand. I don't know that the clothing is for me, but I am obsessed with the brand. I'm obsessed with her and her honesty, her openness, you know, taking us on the journey with her as her business explodes, but all of the ups and downs and the stress that she's going through, but the successes that she's had and I'm just like willing her to win. Yeah, I'm just like, girl, I want to see you win.
Suz Chadwick [00:16:22]:
And I think that when, you know, sometimes we want to appear infallible, like where nothing can hurt us or nothing goes wrong or all of those sorts of things. And I think that, you know, without it being over dramatized of what's happening in the business, I think that us being honest on our journey and allowing our community to be part of what it is that we're creating just builds this loyalty where even though I may not be a customer of the brand, their stuff is beautiful. I talk about it, I'm like. And I comment on their stuff. And she actually did a post this morning where she's like, you know, I find it really amazing that some of you, even though you're not customers of ours, you're just here all the time supporting us and commenting. And I'm like, yes, that's me. Because, you know, we really want to connect with people. We want to.
Suz Chadwick [00:17:20]:
Not. It's not just about the business. It's about, like, the people behind it. I feel like that about gymshark as well, and a few other brands where I'm just like, I just love the founders. Like, whether I'm a customer or not, I would still recommend them, I would still talk about them. And so I think we've just got to really understand how do we. And I think that's a huge shift. I think how do we understand how that plays into our business and our brand, which is the founder, creator, authenticity, empathy, community element, which I just find magnetic and it's sticky and it's just like, I want to be part of it.
Fatima Zahara [00:18:02]:
Yeah.
Suz Chadwick [00:18:03]:
So anyway, yeah, we could just talk about brands we love the whole time.
Fatima Zahara [00:18:08]:
Yeah. Because I was like, oh, this is perfect. Because, you know, even just using Taylor Swift's example, I am not a Swiftie. I. I mean, music is great or whatever. It was never my thing. But just like, you know, you with this brand. I'm also, like, following along, like, eras tour, even though I'm not at all into, like, Taylor Swift's thing, but it's because of her journey.
Fatima Zahara [00:18:28]:
And I think the one common denominator with all these founders and why you care so much about this brand, even though the clothing doesn't really appeal to you, or, like, you know, me feeling, like, a pull towards Taylor Swift, even though I don't care about her music is because of, like, you know, the rise and fall of this hero. Right. Because we see that in ourselves, too. Because if you see someone who's like, unbreakable, invincible, you can't relate to that. Right. They have this, like. They almost seem like a God that you can't relate to. Because I'm human.
Fatima Zahara [00:18:57]:
Right. So how can I relate myself to someone who's like, God, like. Right. But if you see someone who is struggling, who is falling and then picking themselves up and then rising, like, everybody knows, like, Taylor Swift's had. Taylor Swift has had a lot of those, like, fall moments or, like, you know, the founder you're talking about, I'm sure she was talking about her struggles and, you know, the pushback she received. You connect with that element. Because we all struggle. We all fall.
Fatima Zahara [00:19:23]:
And we want to see people who can, like, be, who are where we are at. At one point, like we're in like our lowest and they pick themselves up because that gives us hope that if they can do it, we can do it. But if we don't see anyone struggling or falling, then we don't feel that connection. So if they keep doing better and better in their business or in their life, we can't make that connection because we feel like we're not the same people. So if they're doing well, doesn't mean I will because I just don't see myself in it. So that's where empathy comes in and that's where the hero's journey comes in. Right? So a lot of founders, especially whether you are a product based brand service provider, doesn't matter. As a founder, you're a human and we want to connect with a human.
Fatima Zahara [00:20:03]:
And this is why I always tell my clients who even have just like a product based business, like share your founder story because people want to connect with people, whether you're B2C or B2B, always going to be human to human and not just be like, oh, look how great I am and how amazing my business is doing or what a great success story I am. No, show them the vulnerable part. Show them the lowest element of your journey and then show them how you rolls from that so they can see themselves in the story. So a lot of people make this mistake of making themselves the hero of the journey, of their story, of their brand, when the reality is that you need to create a story in a way where your ideal client, customer can see themselves in the story. So you're not sharing your story, you're creating a space where they can find theirs, themselves in your story, if that makes sense. Right? So that's where the, that's the beginning of this buyer's journey, customer journey. Because we don't have that element where the person can see themselves in your story. You are not going to stick around.
Fatima Zahara [00:21:07]:
I mean, you're not going to stick in their minds for long, right? Because they just can't find that connection. They can't see themselves in there. So, so when you were telling me about this and I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Because you connected with this founder story, right? Like you cared about. You want her to win, right? Because in some way you're seeing yourself in that story, right? Because her winning would seem like you're winning, the community's winning, everyone's winning. And it's like this compounding positive energy. But if you feel this person's invincible, then you're like, okay, yeah, I can't connect. No one can connect.
Fatima Zahara [00:21:38]:
It's not my. I can't see myself in the story. So.
Suz Chadwick [00:21:41]:
Wow. Her business is about to be $50 million. So I'm really hoping I can relate to that really soon myself. So, yeah, I'm just going to follow and be like, yeah, one day. 50 mil.
Fatima Zahara [00:21:51]:
Yeah, easy. Yeah.
Suz Chadwick [00:21:54]:
So good. All right, cool. Well, let's dive in. When we're looking at our customer journey and building our brand in 2025, what are the key things, like step by step that my listeners need to think about and walk through? And what does world building mean?
Fatima Zahara [00:22:10]:
Yeah, so world building, honestly, I just took this term from filmmaking, storytelling. Like, if you look at Harry Potter, it created this world, right? Like, there's a whole world building element in there. Like there's Hogwarts and then all these different, like, I'm also not a Harry Potter fan, so I'm sorry if I'm not identifying these things correctly. But you know, there's these different houses that people connect to. You know, there's a whole, like, thing in England where people go there just to visit the Harry Potter world. Disney has done that. You know, Lord of the Rings is a whole other example. But these are all entertainment.
Fatima Zahara [00:22:45]:
So a lot of people like, okay, how does that world building help us in business? So the biggest example I can give you is Apple, right? Like, Apple has created its own world. There are people who are part of this community which I like to call the citizens of Apple. Like every Apple user is very, very, you know, devoted to Apple. I'm one of.
Suz Chadwick [00:23:03]:
Fanatical.
Fatima Zahara [00:23:04]:
Yeah, fanatical, but in a really wholesome way, I find. Because you feel part of this community, right? Like it's, it identifies, but then it's not because you're being pretentious. Anything but the way Apple started this world building or their world was connecting with creatives, right? Like they created this world for creatives. Like, we're building tools to help your creativity expand. And you found that belonging from there. And of course, over the years it has expanded beyond that. But that was the initial kind of like, that's where it started. Like, Steve Jobs just went for it.
Fatima Zahara [00:23:37]:
And they're like, creatives are not feeling like they're being seen. They don't have a space where they belong. They feel isolated. And I'm going to create a brand, a world where they feel like they belong. And that's where, you know, the events come in. Every, like, launch event is a big deal. Like, people line up to go into those events. The products, all of them were catered with that creative in mind.
Fatima Zahara [00:23:58]:
Like, doesn't matter how much it costs, people want to be blown away by the creativity of our products. The stores even like every touch point of the brand is connected. So when you look at the logo, then you go into the store and then you do the unboxing and the user experience of using the. Either the software or the hardware is all seamless. So there's all these touch points and they all connect. So that's where we need to start. We need to think about our brand as a world. Not just this cute looking website or this nice logo that we have, or we have this Instagram grid that looks really pretty.
Fatima Zahara [00:24:35]:
It's the whole thing from start to finish, which is the buyer's journey. So the moment they make the first like interaction with your brand, whether that's from Instagram, your Pinterest, your like podcast, whatever that is, from that till the very end. And a lot of people don't understand the end is not where you purchase. It's beyond that to delivery too. It needs to feel like they're on the same journey in the same world. And that's where all of these elements come in. So if you think about anything, like using Apple as an example, all of the touchpoints feel the same. The aesthetic is the same.
Fatima Zahara [00:25:08]:
The brand voice, the, the way, the look and feel of the product, it's all similar. It feels like it's part of the same world. Same thing. If you look at any world building that is happening in films, right? Like Lord of the Rings, it has the same aesthetic throughout the movie. You're not going to feel like you're in a different part of the world, right? Same thing with Harry Potter. Even like Taylor Swift's example. Because I'm like studying her a lot these days because I'm like, wow, she just like did such a good job. Like, even though she's like traveling the world, going into like different cities and countries and different cultures, if I'm looking at the pictures, I feel like it's from the same event, you know what I mean? Because her world building is consistent that way and sticks in your mind.
Fatima Zahara [00:25:47]:
Her costumes, the way she's showing up, the way the whole like set is designed on in a concert, it looks like, oh, it's the same like city, just like repeating, you know, and that repetition is key too. So a lot of people think that repeating means you're boring. Not. That's like the biggest and most effective element in Building a brand is repeat, whether that's in your messaging, your visuals. So I would say the beginning of your buyer's journey of building a brand world is to understand that each element builds off of each other and they all need to have that consistency and that relationship and that repetition. But in a way, of course, that's more fun, it's more, it's progressive as we go through the journey. But that's where you start with that mindset shift.
Suz Chadwick [00:26:32]:
Okay, so I've got a question. So if you're just like a service based business. So I love that we're like Harry Potter and we're Taylor Swift and we're Odd Miis and they're all like got these big brands and a lot of them are product based as well. So if you're like, so let's say in your business, how are you building worlds? Like how does that apply when we're trying to do something that's a little bit, not grander but just bit more imaginative, a bit more creative when we're doing that, how are you doing it in your business? Or an example of like a service based business, like what would we do?
Fatima Zahara [00:27:13]:
I can use a lot of like examples. So I'll just go off of the first one. My coach actually, Vix Meldry, I'm not sure if you know about her, but she is a curriculum designer and her program, she has various programs, but her signature program is called Rave Results. So the whole theme of the world of Israel, so it's like disco, so you have a lot of that imagery. But then it also has that deeper meaning to the metaphor. Because her whole promise of her program is that I'm going to help you build a course or a program that people are going to rave about. So Rave Results. But then it also has that disco and raving and everything.
Fatima Zahara [00:27:50]:
Okay, so she calls her students ravers. There's that community element where you feel like I'm a raver. You know what I mean? So you feel that belonging in the community. So that's like the most important element, giving that name to your community member. So rivers, like I call myself a river. I'm like, yeah, I'm a river. And then every time someone talks to me, I talk about Vix and I'm talking about her right now because I feel that community belonging, that I belong in this community. And she has done the whole theme.
Fatima Zahara [00:28:20]:
So if you go her on her slack or her portal, there is this consistent visual elements of Raves, right? Like her branding, her messaging. But there's Also, Claire messaging too, where she's not just like, hey, we have to party. Like, no, we here to get results. So that's one example. The other example is myself, I guess. My upcoming program is called Brand Tea Party. So the way I have designed is like, yes, it has this whimsical element of brand Tea party, but it's more so, like, I want to make brand building and launching specifically fun. It's almost like hosting a tea party.
Fatima Zahara [00:29:01]:
So the whole curriculum and the program is built on this idea that building a brand is much like hosting a tea party. You come up with your initial tea blend ingredient, and then that's your brand story. And then you start host. Start prepping the guest listing, which is your ideal client. Like all these metaphors because, oh, I.
Suz Chadwick [00:29:24]:
Love that guest listing.
Fatima Zahara [00:29:26]:
Yeah. Guest is like guest of honor is basically what I was saying. The guest listing and then guest of honor, meaning your ideal, ideal client. How do you make them feel special at this party? I'm using this analogy to teach, which to me is an easiest way, especially if you're neurodivergent like I am. It just sticks, right? But then now I'm using that theme in my messaging, and a lot of people are sticking around because such a different way of teaching something. And people are like, oh, I haven't heard about this before, but honestly, I'm not teaching anything new. I'm still teaching the same brand building basics, but I'm using this world that I've created that people want to be a part of. I call, like myself a brand pollinator instead of brand strategist.
Fatima Zahara [00:30:06]:
A lot of people love that. There's that first impression stickiness there. And I'm a service provider, right. Like, I, yes, I have this program that I'm talking about as a case study, but my main thing is done for you, brand building strategy and stuff. But they love the whimsy because it doesn't. It makes business, which is usually a boring thing or stressful thing, into this fun tea party thing. There's my other coach, which is my messaging coach. She is.
Fatima Zahara [00:30:36]:
She has this whole, like, Tex Mex world where it's like, she built this entire thing on, like, this restaurant she goes to. So she. She. Her business is called Pasta Queso. And at the beginning, like, what does this have to do with messaging or copywriting? Right? Like what?
Suz Chadwick [00:30:51]:
And she has an identifier. Yeah.
Fatima Zahara [00:30:53]:
And now every time I see, you know, tortillas or queso or anything, I'm like, oh, I think of her. But more than that, I think about the creativity of her messaging because at the end of the day, we don't want to be identified with our visual elements of our theme. Right. I don't want people to think of me as a tea party host. I still want them to think of me as a brand building person. But you create this theme and you build it right, where people associate both things immediately. So they'll think about the tea, or if they see a cute like tea party set, they'll think of me. But then immediately they also think of the brand building element.
Fatima Zahara [00:31:27]:
Right. So I'm seeing a lot of people going into this theming world building as service providers. Especially if you go on threads and you just like, just search up world building, it's popping off because it's making business less mundane, it's making business less jaded, it's making business less tactical. And I think that's why our fears come in. If we see something that's too tactical, right. We are just using numbers and stuff. You're like, no, if you make it seem more homey, like the world you want to step into, people want to be like, okay, I want to work with this person. So it's actually a big thing in service providers right now.
Fatima Zahara [00:32:05]:
Like, I'm seeing people coming up to me like, hey, I want to have a theme. There's this one person who has like baking theme where she's like, I help you build your offer. But it's like offer oven. That's what her offer is called. But it's like, you know, like, I'm intrigued. I'm like, I want to know how she's doing this. Right? And so when you make it fun, you're tapping into that dopamine element of our brain where you're like, okay, this is fun and it's intriguing. And it's almost like, you know, Alice looking at that white rabbit, she's intrigued, like, oh, what is this? I've never seen a rabbit wear like a petticoat and a watch.
Fatima Zahara [00:32:41]:
And she just goes down the rabbit hole with him, right? She doesn't care. I think it's the same element. Right. But you also want to make sure that you don't get too lost in this world building theming. It's more so like understanding that, hey, there are different elements we can use. And understanding consumer behavior is a big deal, a big thing about this. So you're not getting carried away.
Suz Chadwick [00:33:01]:
Yeah, I love that. And even as you're talking about it, there's different people that I think of. There's like Jasmine, who's the pricing queen and she's got the noodle shop and she's got like, it's all these noodle references and all of that sort of stuff. She works with freelancers and then there's a messaging coach in Perth. I think she's the social bolt and she's all Harry Potter like in her coffee and in her like brand naming of products and services, things like that. And I was listening to Alex Homosey this morning, his podcast, and he was talking about Mosey Nation and it's so, it's just like even as you're talking, I'm like, oh, I hear those things all the time. Like naming your community, having like maybe brand theming around your products and services that, that are something that's recognizable or identifiable. Yeah, I love that.
Suz Chadwick [00:33:50]:
That's so cool. That's so, so good. Okay, cool. So once we've started to look at what that could be, I feel like this is so fun. Once we're starting to look at what that could be, what's the next thing we need to be thinking about?
Fatima Zahara [00:34:09]:
So you know, now that you have built, not built, but you've started thinking about this world, what it looks like, you now start thinking about the entry point into your world and being honest. Like, I want to be completely like honest. I'm just looking, using traditional marketing and just spinning. Spinning on it, right? Like, or putting a spin on it. So for example, if I were to look at a traditional marketing element, I mean tactic, which is funneling, you have this big product or service or whatever at the end of this funnel and then you have these entry points, you have these lead magnets, you have opt ins, whatever, right? But people come in through the funnel and then they leave. So we still in that kind of like we taking from that traditional aspect, we're making it more dynamic where it's evergreen. So I still want you to think of the same principles of the entry of the funnel. It's just the ending of the funnel that I'm trying to change, which is this evergreen ecosystem.
Fatima Zahara [00:35:07]:
Right. So going back to the entry, you want to think about how people opt into a funnel instead of you thinking about how do people enter your world, right. So you're still thinking about like, maybe it is a lead magnet, maybe it is your Instagram, maybe it's a blog post that you wrote or podcast, whatever it is. But your mindset is not like, oh, you got this person to just get into my funnels. And now they're in this like sequence. And they're going to spy instead. You think like, okay, this is an entry point into my world, and I want them to just not enter, but stay. So when you are developing this entry point, whatever that is, whether it's Instagram or freebie or whatever, think about the fact that how can this entry point ensure that they not only just come in, they stay.
Fatima Zahara [00:35:52]:
How will this entry point build off of the second stage, off your world building? Right. So a lot of people right now are saying, like, freebies don't work anymore. Like, lead magnets aren't working. People are just signing up, and then they're not buying. There's no point. But I think it's because you're seeing it a different way. This is an entry point, but we need to make sure that your world that you're built is intriguing enough for them to stay. So, for example, going back to my example of the messaging coach who is past the queso, I love her newsletters, and I do not read newsletters.
Fatima Zahara [00:36:24]:
I'm that person who does not have time to read newsletters. But because her messaging is so humorous and because she uses this whole, like, theme of, like, the Tex Mex and stuff, and she has that Texas humor, even if it doesn't align with me, even if I'm not, like, looking to buy from her, I want to read this newsletter because it's entertaining. So even though I opted into the newsletter initially because she was giving away some, like, free challenge, I'm sticking around because her sequencing or her world is keeping me there. So I want you to think about, like, okay, you have this world straight. What are the entry points? And having different entry points because all of us are coming from different aspects. Like, some of us are coming from Instagram because we're visual learners. So your reels are probably popping off for some people, but there are people like me who are more so readers. So maybe your newsletter is your entry point.
Fatima Zahara [00:37:13]:
Maybe it's something entirely different. Maybe it's a quiz. Because people love to know who they are. Like, oh, what kind of creator are you? Or what kind of writer are you? Right. So thinking about different entry points and understanding that the entry point is just the beginning. You need to nurture them in a way where they feel like they belong. Not like, oh, I'm going to provide value and I'm going to give them all these, like, frameworks and they're going to stick around. No, you need to build that emotional element.
Fatima Zahara [00:37:40]:
And that's where I would start initially.
Suz Chadwick [00:37:44]:
So good. I've got so many Ideas. But I love that. And I think that's such a big differentiation to, you know, them just signing up. It's like, how are you introducing them to your world? What is it that you're saying to them where you're saying, it's like, welcome. Like, this is what we're about. This is what it's like. Here, like, take a seat.
Suz Chadwick [00:38:02]:
Let's like, let me show you. And I just think even then as you were talking, I'm like, thinking about all these visual elements. So I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, how. How can that be more of a dynamic experience for our customers where they're like, oh, my gosh. Like, it's almost like a smorgasbord. It's like, oh, like, if you like this, then you should check this out. It's like when, you know, you walk into a shop or something, they're like, over here we've got handbags, and then we've got this over here.
Suz Chadwick [00:38:28]:
And it's kind of like, what do you, like, what is it that you want? Like, let me show you what we've got to offer. And this is, you know, this is what the experience is going to be like.
Fatima Zahara [00:38:38]:
Yeah. And it's almost as soon as he was talking about all of this, I was like, it's like Willy Wonka, right?
Suz Chadwick [00:38:43]:
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of.
Fatima Zahara [00:38:45]:
Yeah. I was like, it's like, it's not just about chocolate, is it? It's like the whole world Willy Wonka built within this factory that people are. These kids want to explore. And there were so many elements, they even forgot about chocolate entirely. It was all about the journey. And I think that's what we want to create, right? Because when we are thinking about, like, funnels, we just like, okay, someone's going to opt in. They're going to be autumn, like, put in this automated, like, sequence. And then eventually, hopefully, they're going to purchase.
Fatima Zahara [00:39:12]:
And then once they purchase it by. Right, and that's why initially may have worked, but now people are smarter, they want something more. Especially when there are experiences out there, right? Like Apple and all these big brands of the world, like Coca Cola, they are creating all these experiences, right? So we are already being fed that we want more. And now it's catching up to the service industry, right? So, like, one of my entry points was having a big stance against funnels because, like, I feel like funnels are dead. And that was my first viral post. I'm like, funnels are dead, okay? And this is where it's at. And then that's how I started. And that was my first entry point.
Fatima Zahara [00:39:46]:
But if I had just said funnels are dead and I just build a brand world, people wouldn't have stuck around like, what are you talking about? So I built a brand world and I just showed what that is, and now people are sticking around, right? So yes, you start with a bang. Like have something. Like taking a stance on something that is otherwise popular is a big thing. Like I just said funnels are dead. And people like, what do you mean? How are funnels dead? Because that's the most like, traditional, tried and tested thing that people keep telling you to do to build. And I'm like, no, they're telling you the wrong thing. Or maybe they don't know it yet, but in 2025, funnels are going to be dead if they're not already, right? And that was my first entry point and I built off of that. I didn't just say like, funnels are dead, I actually showed them.
Fatima Zahara [00:40:30]:
And I did provide a lot of value, but in an experience, experiential way. And my messaging was a big part. So one of the other things is like, when you're building that entry point, you want to first make sure that all your elements in your brand are cohesive. So going back to what I was talking about, world building, to be completely honest, it's just making sure your brand is experiential. That's what worldbuilding is, right? So your messaging, your theme, your visuals, the way you show up, your energy, all of that compounds. So I like to call them magnetic moments. So your campaigns, instead of just being like a one off campaign, I'm just going to launch this and it's going to be done. It's a one and done thing.
Fatima Zahara [00:41:10]:
You think about magnetic moments where they built off of each other. So my one post that was about funnels are dead was one magnetic moment that I, you know, got built for my world. The second was this workshop that I did, which was called steep while you sleep, which was based on the whole mindset that when you build a brand world because it's a tea party theme, your brand will keep steeping even while you're sleeping. Kind of like that tagline really like stuck around. And that was my second magnetic moment. Then I started doing all these reels where, you know, one of them you watch and you're like, hey, you want to hop on this podcast and talk about that was my other magnetic moment. So I started building these moments individually, but hoping that they all connect. So when you build multiple magnetic moments like that, people come and stay and they bring friends along.
Fatima Zahara [00:42:00]:
So also thinking about that, these entry moments, these campaigns, these content pieces that you're posting or creating, think of them as magnetic moments and how they built off of each other and create this compounding effect versus like, oh, I have to post every day because Instagram's like content shelf life is like short or TikTok like no, build content that will build off of each other so you don't have to be stuck in this like constant churn of like creating content. You're just burning out. So that's another element of brand building. Oh, world building.
Suz Chadwick [00:42:33]:
Yeah, I love that. I kind of wrote down creating Wanda when we were. Yeah, it's like, you know, we were talking about Willy Wonka and the Rabbit and all the rest of it and it's, it's creating this wonder moment where it's like, oh my gosh, like that's so interesting. And it's, the question is like, what are you bringing? What are you inviting people into? What is the world that you're creating? And even when I think about odd news, they, they've just done a pop up in New York. So as I said, they're a London based business. But her whole photo shoot and she was like, she said this morning I was posting on TikTok like five times a day. She said, you know, we had so much content and we were doing so many things and it was so exciting. But her whole photo shoot was very 1950s New York.
Suz Chadwick [00:43:21]:
You know, like the big Dodge car where she was like in the back seat and she was like all glammed up and it was, she was reading like a newspaper. And I was transported into like that world.
Fatima Zahara [00:43:37]:
Yeah, yeah.
Suz Chadwick [00:43:38]:
Where I was just like, oh my gosh, the glamour and the glitz and the Audrey Hepburn and then New York, like 1950s and the cobble streets and, and then their fashion and it was just, I was just like, I just wanted to like see more and consume more because I was like loving being in that world. And so I think, yeah. Asking yourself, how do I create wonder and how do I tell a story I think is really important.
Fatima Zahara [00:44:05]:
No, that's basically it. And the just like thinking about so many, I wouldn't say so many, but couple of bloggers too. Like originally bloggers and now they're all brand builders. Did the same thing. Right. Like I think her name is pronounced as Negan. She just started her like Jisoo, which was her hair product based Brand. It's based on honey powered.
Fatima Zahara [00:44:31]:
So she is actually sixth generation beekeeper. And then she built this whole like fashion brand around it. I love that. Yeah, I didn't care much. Like I'm like, okay. And then she launched this honey infused hair care line. If you look at her like campaigns much like, you know, you were talking about this odd news thing theme of 50s, hers is always inspired by bees. So it's always like an evergreen summer.
Fatima Zahara [00:44:57]:
It's like a never ending summer. All of her visuals and stuff are like very summery and bees. And even if I'm not into like her haircare product line, I want to just get it just because it looks so appealing. But then it also ties into her story as being sixth generation beekeeper. Even though she started off as like a fashion blogger. Right. So this is continuity in the storytelling. And like you said.
Fatima Zahara [00:45:21]:
Right. Like a lot of people, either they overestimate the power of visuals or they underestimate. And I feel like that's where the disconnect comes in because a lot of people are like, oh, you don't need good photography. I've been selling my products for the longest time and I never hired a photographer or a designer. I'm doing really well. I don't even have a website. And they're not lying, they're selling. Right.
Fatima Zahara [00:45:43]:
And then there are other people who are like, oh, I have this great like creative direction and photography and I'm doing really well. So which one is it? Right. So I think the main key is that, you know, going back to story, tying the visuals to your story. Like you were talking about like, you know, the whole New York. It was in the pop up store was in New York and The theme was 50th New York. But that's when, I mean, I wouldn't say like New York is still great, but that was also its peak. Right. Like New York.
Fatima Zahara [00:46:11]:
If you think about it, its peak was in the 50s and the 60s. Right. So she touched into that emotional element and she went with that because she knew she had to appeal to the people in New York and she wants to transport them in that time. And she built that mini world for that pop up store. Right. Well, continuity.
Suz Chadwick [00:46:28]:
The other thing with their brand is classic style.
Fatima Zahara [00:46:32]:
Oh, cool. Yeah.
Suz Chadwick [00:46:33]:
So it fits. It's like, it's like a p. It's like a piece you'll have in your wardrobe forever. That's like, I love that. Yeah, that's like classic. So it, it fit really well with, you know, the thing that they were going With. But yeah, it was just, it was so interesting.
Fatima Zahara [00:46:48]:
But that's actually great because it just adds on to what I was saying because again, there's a continuity. You see like this timelessness in her clothing. She doesn't want you to buy into fast fashion. She's probably not for sure. She's.
Suz Chadwick [00:47:02]:
That's their enemy. Like that's what they're. They're working against.
Fatima Zahara [00:47:06]:
Yeah, yeah, that's the villain. And she's using that timelessness in her campaigns in this pop up story in the 50s theme. Right. Because especially in the 50s, that's where, you know, tailor made gourmet, like stuff was a thing. Right. Like people are not just buying fast fashion. Fast fashion did not even exist back then. Right.
Fatima Zahara [00:47:23]:
So like there's a continuity there. Right. So visuals can be very, very powerful in this way. But if you have that continuity in it and a lot of people miss that. So like just using Odd Muse as an example or the blogger that I talked about storytelling, but in a visual form that connects everything. So your brain, without realizing subconsciously is being exposed to the same elements of your brand over and over again. And like repetition, but without feeling like, oh my God, it's the same thing I've seen like 500 times. It's not repeating, but also not repeating.
Fatima Zahara [00:47:58]:
You're just making it stickier and stickier with each campaign or magnetic moment or like you said, wonder moment that you.
Suz Chadwick [00:48:04]:
Create with each round and it's recognizable. And I think that goes back to the repetition we were talking about.
Fatima Zahara [00:48:10]:
Yeah.
Suz Chadwick [00:48:11]:
Is that whilst we can maybe have different campaigns and different things that are happening, it's like when people see it, they know the brand. Like they know that that is that brand. Or even if somebody's trying to copy it, you're like, are you trying to be that brand? Because they've claimed it, because they own that look, that vibe, that narrative, that world. So I think it's really interesting because I can't remember what the saying was, but it was, don't be first, be. It's like, it's like own the mind of your customer. It's like it doesn't matter whether you're first or not, but if you own like that space, that's what matters the most. I'll have to find what that quote is because I really liked it when.
Fatima Zahara [00:48:54]:
I read it and I understand what you're saying. And there's this other. She's doing her world building really well. Coming up Roses. She is a launch coach and she, I think she was the first person I saw who did world building so well, where I was like, wow, I've never seen anyone do it so well. And people keep copying her brand. That's one of her stories because she keeps like posting. But the funny or I guess wonderful element of that is because she has built her world in such a way that association is so strong is that every time someone copies her brand, people tell her like, hey, someone copied your brand.
Fatima Zahara [00:49:31]:
So community looking out for her. And each time someone copies a brand, doesn't matter because she'll come up with a new campaign, she'll do another rebrand. She's evolving her brand because true to her. So it's actually helped her grow, in my opinion, because every time someone copies her brand, she gets exposure because people are talking about it. She's resharing their, like tweets or threads or posting on her stories. And also shows what a beautiful community she has built where they are looking out for her. Right. Even like using you as an example, because every time I see something that's really bright and colorful and floral, I know it's you, you know, or if I.
Fatima Zahara [00:50:08]:
Even if it's not you, it made me think of you. So that association goes a long way when done right?
Suz Chadwick [00:50:16]:
Yeah, I love it. I'm obsessed with this topic. I think it's so good.
Fatima Zahara [00:50:19]:
It's.
Suz Chadwick [00:50:20]:
And I just think there's. There's so many brands that I love where I'm just like, oh. Like I just. I don't know, there's like an emotion, a feeling that you get where you're just like, oh, it's just so good, so juicy. Like, I just want more of it. Like, once again, whether you're a consumer or not, it's just like, God, I just admire them. I. I'm just like, so in that world, what's next? Because you and I could like, literally talk forever, by the way.
Suz Chadwick [00:50:46]:
But what else do we need? Was there anything else we need to be thinking.
Fatima Zahara [00:50:52]:
Honestly just compounds. Right? So you have to think about the fact that every content offer magnetic moment or wonder moment, whatever you want to call them needs to compound. It's like think about, like, I would say, like the easiest thing to think about would be like playing Sims or like Minecraft. Right? Like you're building different elements or a theme park. Like your theme park is not just one ride. You know what I mean?
Suz Chadwick [00:51:18]:
Yeah.
Fatima Zahara [00:51:18]:
Maybe people are coming in for that one big ride, but they're staying for the other other little rides they didn't know they would enjoy. Right. So like mindset should be that it's an all encompassing evergreen ecosystem where you're not racing against time. So a lot of us, especially in this like instant culture, we're always, we just wake up and like, okay, let's create content. Because you're like on autopilot because Your Reels and TikToks only have 24 hours shelf life. Maybe you can do YouTube and Pinterest, they have longer shelf life. But you're always thinking about that one off content, the visibility it's going to give you. And you just, that's all you're thinking about when you're creating that content.
Fatima Zahara [00:51:56]:
But if you think about that content as your magnetic moment, your wonder moment, as that one ride in this theme park, that's gonna enhance the experience of your world, of your park, I think that's key. And that's next. So you will keep building the same. Once the entry points are done, then you start building these magnetic moments. You ensure that your offer is actually giving you transformation. Because at the end of the day, yes, world building is fun and it's whimsical and it's like, yay, fun. But if you're not giving the transformation you're promising them, people are going to feel like they were cheated. Right? Like, the reason why, like all these brands are doing so well.
Fatima Zahara [00:52:32]:
I'm sure, like Odd Muse is like actual clothing is timeless, it has quality, it's, it's like fulfilling the promise. Right? So the, that is also key because a lot of times when I'm talking about this, I can get carried. I'm like, yeah, make something fun and whimsical and it's like, yeah, but yes, exactly. So you want your world to be fun and create that belonging and all that, but also be transformative, be wholesome, be a place of nurture where people come in and they feel like they're being nurtured. Because that's what home is like, right? Like you come home to nurture yourself. Right? So that would be key too. And to always understand that, you know, building brands in general is a marathon. And with this whole like pandemic era with coaches telling like, oh, I made 10k months in 60 days, or like, blah, blah, and I had like a million dollars in my first year.
Fatima Zahara [00:53:26]:
They all burned out. A lot of them did. Right? Because they did not build an evergreen ecosystem. They were very successful, they made a lot of money. But they didn't think of brand building in such a way. So we can learn from them too, is because everything they built Was not. It did not have a high shelf life, it didn't have a long shelf life because they didn't build a world. They built these one off like tactics or pieces that burnt out individually and they were left with nothing.
Fatima Zahara [00:53:57]:
So you have to think about your brand as this world, as this garden where you're building, you're planting all these seeds that might not grow immediately, they'll be slow, but they built off of each other. Like a well built garden is not just one flower or the other. It's like a whole experience. So seeing it that way, that, hey, it's an evergreen thing, it's, I mean, of course depends on how long you want to run your brand, but it's going to be a forever kind of thing because the moment you stop nurturing it, like if you stop nurturing your garden, it's going to start to die. So having that mindset too. So the more fun you can make it, the better. Which is why I love this whole world building idea because it makes it fun for me. I'm like, oh, what part of my world am I going to build today? It's almost like sims or like Minecraft, like building things.
Fatima Zahara [00:54:42]:
Like I'm going to nurture this corner of my brand garden. I'm making it fun. Not because it's like fun or it's like childish or whatever. It's because it helps me increase the longevity of my efforts and off my world building initiatives. And that's what I tell my clients to make. Hey, we not just world building because it's strategic and it builds into consumer behavior. Yes, all those elements. But also has that internal benefit of making it fun for you because you need to be the one working the price of you.
Fatima Zahara [00:55:15]:
Yeah. If you don't, if you're not enjoying the process, then you're going to stop. And then the moment you stop, it's going to die down. Right. So making it fun, keeping it strategic and making it a world where you want to hang out as well as your dream clients and customers. So it's kind of like all encompassing place.
Suz Chadwick [00:55:32]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I was just thinking recently, like this week I was thinking about it because somebody was just saying to me like, you know, I feel like I'm just posting, like I'm just. And I just said, you know, you want to tell a story and you want to really think about like I think about content as well. Like it's a coin that I'm putting in my piggy bank. So every time I create a post I think about, okay, I'm putting a coin in my piggy bank, my brand piggy bank, because that's going to build trust, it's going to build equity. And eventually I'm going to get to the point where I withdraw from that piggy bank through. I love that, the consistency of the brand that I'm building. And so I think this just really, like, if you're listening to this right now and you're thinking, suze, I don't know how to build my brand.
Suz Chadwick [00:56:22]:
I think that what we've given you today is number one. It's so exciting and fun. Like, it's so good, like, just to think about it in a really different way. I'm definitely going to be using this, like, as I'm planning for 2025. But just really understand that when you start to think about what is the experience I'm wanting to give my audience, what is the story that I'm telling, what is the thing that's really going to help them with whatever it is that I help them have that transformation and I show up on the regular and I build and I build and I build. Like, there's always a payoff when you do it well and you do it from a place of that connection, that community, that, you know, service element to where you're really there to serve and support and be the person where they're just like, I want to know more, I want to learn more, I want to like, be here with you. So I think that that's, that's also just something to think about from a practical perspective of how you implement it on a daily basis.
Fatima Zahara [00:57:22]:
I also wanted to add that without, like, a lot of us don't realize, but we already world building anyway. We already doing the work of world building, but we not realize that that's what we're doing and that's why we're not building in a way, right? So like you said, like, you know, you had this person come to you and be like, hey, I'm creating content every day. That is part of the world building process. Like, I will tell you to build content, but only now I'm telling you, like, hey, be intentional. How will this content add to your world? How is like, how is this a coin that you're adding into your piggy bank? How is this a flower or a flower bed, whatever being gonna enhance the experience of your garden? So you still, a lot of us feel like, oh my God, worldbuilding, a whole new thing. It's like a new buzzword and I have to strap everything off and then, I mean, check everything off my list now and then start this new thing again. And I'm like, no, you're actually doing a lot of these elements already. You just don't know how to connect them.
Fatima Zahara [00:58:18]:
And I think that's what world building is. I'm not telling you to restart everything or start from scratch. I'm just saying, like, things are important. Exactly. You're already doing all these things. You just need to find a connection and intentionally built off of each other. So everything feeds the other. Like they're feeding off of each other and they're not individual pieces in this collection.
Fatima Zahara [00:58:39]:
It's more of an ecosystem where everything has its purpose and they're like feeding off of each other, giving off the same vibe. And while you're doing more work, you actually, while you're feeling that you're doing more work, you're actually doing less. Because now you don't have to struggle for that new reel to go out tomorrow. Because if it doesn't, your business going to die. No, because the few things you already built off like a few days ago are still working for you. Right. So I also want to add that because a lot of my clients recently have been like, oh, wow, so I have to start this thing now. And I'm like, no, literally, you've been doing it.
Fatima Zahara [00:59:16]:
You just didn't realize they're all connected. And I'm just inviting you to see it from that perspective that everything is connected and we just need to make sure it stays connected. And that's basically what world building is.
Suz Chadwick [00:59:28]:
Yeah, I love it. So, so good. Ah, juicy. All right, fantastic. Well, listen, my audience that are listening, that was so good. I really love this conversation. Where can they find you? What can they do with you? Like, tell us all the things.
Fatima Zahara [00:59:44]:
Well, they can find me on my website, which is fatima0co. You can also find search me up as brand pollinator, which I'm hoping no one has copied yet. So it's going to be a unique identifier to find me. So far it's been working. I also just like launched a free workshop which actually is very aligned with this podcast where I teach you how to build your first magnetic moment. And it's called steep while you sleep. You can find it on my website too. So Fatima Zara co steep and we'll.
Suz Chadwick [01:00:14]:
Have the link in the shy night.
Fatima Zahara [01:00:16]:
Great. And it's evergreen. Hopefully I never take it off because I love it so much. So you can sign up anytime. You get instant access and you also get instant access to My Mini World Building course, which is also free. It's a private podcast to help you get started. Because I feel like a lot of us think it's Narnia and it's not, and I want to make sure that we all feel it's not Narnia. So I have these two things that I'm really excited about because I put a lot of effort into it, but was also a lot of fun because I was teaching myself how to build my Narnia.
Fatima Zahara [01:00:50]:
And. Yeah. So I'm hoping that this is resourceful for you guys too, who are listening. And if you have any feedback, suggestions, please let me know, because my goal is to keep creating resources that help my people build their brand worlds, because I love to see it outside. I'm like, when I see people building brand worlds or even just hearing about it, like you were talking about Odd Muse, I want to go start talking, stalking them right now, because I love stuff like this. Right. It's so whimsical. It's almost like creating mini theme parks, but for businesses.
Fatima Zahara [01:01:18]:
And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go take a stroll. So, yeah, again, I'm getting excited now. It's like, okay, it's time for me to go to bed soon. So I'm like, don't get too excited.
Suz Chadwick [01:01:28]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your incredible knowledge with us today. It's been so good to hang with you again. Maybe someone will come out with a clubhouse again soon and we might hang. Hang in that, but. But who knows? We'll see.
Fatima Zahara [01:01:43]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. I will never stop yapping about branding in general. So just connecting with you on clubhouse, too. I was like, this is great. This is my person. And I like just talking with you right now. I'm just thinking about all those clubhouse rooms that we used to host.
Fatima Zahara [01:02:00]:
And so thank you for inviting me and allowing me to relive those golden moments. And, yeah, I'm excited to see your launch in the new year.
Suz Chadwick [01:02:09]:
Yeah. So good. So good. All right, lovely. Well, good to see you. We'll speak to you soon.
Fatima Zahara [01:02:14]:
That sounds good. Thank you.
Suz Chadwick [01:02:17]:
Oh, my gosh. Did you love it? I loved it. So I hope that this has given you, like, a bit of a fresh and exciting way to think about your planning for 2025. As we said, it's not about scratching what you've got and starting from scratch. It's about using this to help you be more creative, to think in a different way. And I think that Right now, I'm just going to say it. We have to step up our brand game. Like, we've got to start doing things differently.
Suz Chadwick [01:02:44]:
Otherwise you will just blend into the sea of sameness in the market as it continues to build and grow and more people come in. You can absolutely stand out. You can be different. And I just want you to know that. But as I say to my amplify clients all the time, you have got to step into your full, true, authentic personality. You know the things that you want to say, but you're not saying the things you want to do, but you're not doing. Those are the things that have to happen. And so I just really want you to feel inspired and excited.
Suz Chadwick [01:03:17]:
Those are the emotions that I would love you to feel when you're thinking about what are the stories that I could tell, what are the worlds that I could build, how am I creating this incredible community and experience for my audience to be part of and for you to be the leader. Yeah, for you to be the leader. So I hope you got so much out of it. I can't wait to, you know, listen to it again even. I'm just like, so many ideas came up for me during this episode. So yeah, I hope that this has really kind of given you a bit of a, I don't know, vava voom. And so the other thing I really want to ask is I would love you if you've been listening to the podcast podcast this year, I would love you to go and leave a review for me wherever it is that you listen to the podcast and give us a rating, obviously a five. If you're loving it because your reviews help the podcast to rank, it helps us to get found more.
Suz Chadwick [01:04:10]:
You know, we're always wanting to grow our audience and our community on the podcast, so reviews and shares are always appreciated. I can't believe we're coming to the end of the year with we've got a few more episodes to go over Christmas we'll be sharing our best episodes, our most listened to episodes as well over the break and obviously we'll be coming back with a new year too. So I think we're in year eight now, maybe year nine of the podcast, which is crazy. And yeah, we'll probably hit 500 episodes, I'm guessing by next year. Can you believe it? Your girl can talk. She can talk. If there's anything you want me to cover on the podcast, then let me know. Have an amazing day, week, whatever you're doing and I will see you soon.
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