Suz Chadwick [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Brand Builders Lab podcast. I'm your host, Suze Chadwick, certified business and mindset coach, author and speaker. Each week we'll be talking about simple but powerful business and mindset strategies that will help you build a lean, clean and profitable business so you can learn to get out of your own way and pay yourself more. Forget average, it's time to level up. Hello my lovelies. Welcome back to the Brand Builders Lab podcast. Awesome to have you here. We have got a very special guest on the podcast today.

Suz Chadwick [00:00:32]:
It's been a while since I've had a guest. I think I definitely want to have more guests, but this is my process. I have to let you know we get a lot of pictures for the podcast and we usually say that we're not accepting pictures because for me I want to meet somebody or I want to see somebody online and I want to be like, wow. I want to be like I need to have you on my podcast. I need to introduce you to my community. So that is my process for having people on the podcast is I really need to feel like they are going to bring something amazing and wow factor. And I met today's guest, her name is Lucy Miller. She is from Socially Constructed and I met her at the recent Rise Retreat at Beach Monastery in Queensland and we just clicked.

Suz Chadwick [00:01:21]:
We sat at dinner and breakfast and we chatted and nattered and all the rest of it and I really wanted to have her on the podcast. She talks a lot about neuroscience and persuasion and how the brain works and the nervous system, which I love all of that stuff. And so I said to her, come on the podcast and we'll work out what we're going to talk about. And so today we are talking about the secret to influence and we kind of go a little bit all over the place, but it is all so valuable and I cannot wait to share this conversation with you. I know that you're going to get something out of it for sure. And so that is what we're talking about today. Now let me give you. Lucy's more formal introduction is that she helps leaders and organizations thrive in a fast paced, ever changing world by combining cutting edge research, practical expertise and a deep commitment to wellbeing.

Suz Chadwick [00:02:23]:
As the founder of Socially Constructed, she specializes in resilience, psychological fitness, leadership development and organizational wellness. And she really works to take a human first approach, delivering trauma informed and neuro inclusive solutions that foster performance, adaptability and authentic connections. She is a doctor in positive psychology and I love that she works with NATO Olympians, academic institutes, like, it's exciting. I don't know about you, but I love all that stuff. And so I am excited to have her here on the podcast chatting with you. So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:03:15]:
Lucy, welcome to the Brand Builders Lab podcast.

Suz Chadwick [00:03:18]:
Hey Suz, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be be here with you.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:03:23]:
My pleasure, my pleasure. Now, Lucy and I met last week at the Rise retreat in Beachmont. You were like a last minute attendee.

Suz Chadwick [00:03:34]:
Yeah, I love.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:03:36]:
And we chat. I loved, we chatted for the whole time and I just found what you do super, super interesting. And I was like, you have to come on the podcast and talk to my amazing listeners about it. So Lucy, do you want to just give us a little bit of background on who you are and what you do and how you got here?

Suz Chadwick [00:03:58]:
Of course, yes. So I'm Lucie and I run Socially Constructed, which is an organization designed to what you know, it's sneaky. So you say like if we're being really kind of corporate about it. I work with organizations on their human centered leadership development, their culture development and their organizational well being through training masterminds and kind of leadership coaching and development. But that's sneaky because what I'm actually trying to do is bring like skills and resources and connection to every single person so that they can thrive in life. Because I have got ocd, which really impacted me when I was younger and throughout my 20s and it really impacted how I showed up for work and it was pretty crappy. And so I thought I can either let this sink me or I can use like this story in this journey to actually benefit myself and to do good in the world as best as I can. And so I kind of, my background is in business.

Suz Chadwick [00:05:02]:
I went and I retrained. Positive psychology, lots of neuroscience qualifications, basically the science of being human. And I use that knowledge to, to go into corporates and to just build thriving spaces that is fundamentally about human excellence and human thriving, with the secondary benefit being organizational thriving. We have a healthy, happy person. The byproduct is always going to be a productive organization. So that's kind of like in a nutshell what I do. And that's what got me to that place. So you can find me working online.

Suz Chadwick [00:05:41]:
I have a global mastermind of like globally isolated women in leadership who just need a networking connection. I also work with like remote organizations on their kind of culture change and leadership development. And currently I do a lot of work with NATO on their leadership development as well. And I love it. It makes me. Yeah, I'm a bit of a geek on all of these topics.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:06:06]:
I love that. Well, we were talking a lot about the neuroscience and how our brain works and all of the things that we're constantly trying to get ourselves to do and change and all the rest of it. So I absolutely loved our conversation and know that one of the things that you mentioned to me is that you talk about influence. And so today, what I really wanted you to come and speak about and for us to have a conversation about, you framed it as the secret of influence and getting what you want. And I was like, yes, yes. And more yes to that. I know that we're all really looking for. How do we find a way that feels good, where we can influence and impact our clients, the industry that we're in, in the work that we do, but in a way that feels really good, because I know that we were sort of talking.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:07:01]:
When we talk about influence, sometimes it can feel or have a little bit of a negative connotation. So how do you talk about it?

Suz Chadwick [00:07:10]:
I love that. Yes. People, when we say influence, they can. They retract and, like, try and crawl into themselves because they hate it. It feels messy. It feels a bit icky. It feels manipulative, and it feels like, you know, this caricature that we see in your old Hollywood movies. If there's this guy and he's got to, like, take over the business or something.

Suz Chadwick [00:07:31]:
And so he uses influence as abuse in a way. But that isn't influence. Influence is all about other people. And that is the magic that I want everybody to think about when it comes to what influence truly, truly is. It's all about understanding people, connecting with people, and finding a way to talk to them in a medium where they're actually going to hear you. We are all the center of our own universes. Like the stars of our own show, we forget that, like, that gets in our way. So when we communicate with other people, when we try and, like, sell our story or get people on board, we talk about it through our lens, what we need, what is important to us.

Suz Chadwick [00:08:22]:
But the receiver, the person that we're talking to, is the center of their own show. So it would make much more sense if we got curious and we thought about human connection and actually finding out what somebody else wants so we can see if we can actually facilitate that need instead. If that makes sense.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:08:42]:
Yeah, for sure. And so when you're teaching about influence, and I just want to pick up something there as well, is that you know, I feel like influence and manipulation, we sort of see them as cousins. They're like the two peas in a pod. But like you said, it is very, very different. And so when you're teaching people about influence, what are some of the key things that you're taking them through and teaching them to be able to influence in a positive way? You mentioned a couple of it there, but let's go a little bit deeper into it.

Suz Chadwick [00:09:15]:
Okay. I'd say the first thing that with everything in life, we can use everything in life for good or for bad. And it's the same if we like unlock and actually teach influencing skills. It can be used to manipulate. So the foundation of great influencing is actively participating in using it to enhance everybody. Because we can manipulate, we can use every, every single influencing strategy on this planet to manipulate somebody into doing what we want. But you can only do it once because the second somebody knows that you are manipulating them, the game is over. Trust is gone.

Suz Chadwick [00:09:56]:
And trust is the foundation of connection, which is the foundation of influencing. So really manipulation, coercive control. Yeah, you're going to have a really awful reputation, so allow it to just free you. And when we actually think about influencing, we want to, I always like to say we have to be curious, curious. And we have to focus on active participation. Like we have got to lead the whole journey of influence. We have got to put ourselves out there to build relationships, to build connection. And I think we were saying on the, on the tour, on the retreat, won't be in life, people act in a transactional manner.

Suz Chadwick [00:10:40]:
So I do something for you, you do something for me. And this is easy and this is good and it's necessary because it means that stuff gets done. So I'll say to my husband, you walk the dog and I'll pick up the kids or whatever else it is or work. I need this from you. I need this. And it means that we never get buy in if everything is kept at that surface level. We never actually get buy in from other people because we don't know the other person particularly well. So in life the magic happens when you just get so curious about what makes another human tick because then you can talk to that.

Suz Chadwick [00:11:16]:
If I suddenly know more about sue said, I know what is meaningful for you, what you enjoy doing in your spare time, about your family, about your values. Then all of a sudden I am connecting with a human. And so when I try to influence, I reframe. Influencing is co creating. So I'm thinking with what I know about Suze, how Can I make her win in a way that I win as well? So does that make sense what I'm saying?

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:11:50]:
Yeah, I love that. It was really interesting. We had a session on like leadership and, and what it was, you know, what we need to, the energy we need to bring when it comes to leadership at the retreat. And just on what you were saying there. I was saying when I used to be in management, I used to ask each of my team what their motivators were. So what's something that you like? And we were sort of saying, do you want like a dinner day, which is like a mental health day? Do you want, you know, a voucher for you and your partner to go out for dinner? Like, what is it that they love? What is it that they find rewarding? What is going to motivate them? And just from what you were saying there, it's like, how do you win and I win and how do we have that personal relationship where I know what it is that you want and that you need and what drives you? That just reminded me of that conversation as well.

Suz Chadwick [00:12:46]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And to that I'm sure we were all in another conversation as well where, where we were on so many, they were so good. But there were some individuals who were on that note. They were trying to kind of create a change within their team dynamic. And they were like, but we've done the, the, the meetup days and we have done that like the text tick, tick, tick. This is how you run a great organization. We do the team check ins, we offer the, we do all of these things and they are, they're brilliant by the way. Not knocking them, but unless it's what the other person wants, it's useless.

Suz Chadwick [00:13:26]:
Yeah. So we can roll that stuff out. What if we're the only person who's invested in it? We're never going to get buy in or anything like that. And I think that your point was you thought about the connection as an one to one, this person and that's where the magic happens, where in that other conversation it was blanket. I don't know why it's not working because I'm doing, I'm ticking the boxes. Because it was too global, you know, it wasn't tailored like you were just discussing. And that's what we have to, you know, you want to feel, you want to feel and I think that's it. We, every person wants to feel, heard, connected, a positive emotion.

Suz Chadwick [00:14:08]:
And the thing I love about my work and I think I'd love everybody to feel is we have the gift of making people feel. And there is no greater gift that we can give than creating a sense of connection. And I've actually thought about you.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:14:27]:
Yeah. And so like is gonna sound such a business question. Is that scalable, Lucy? Like, you know how we think about, especially in the online world. Like, I know you work with large organizations, so I feel like that's still a relevant question as well. Is that when I've got my team and I've got however many I've got 20, like, that's doable. I can understand. I can write down different people's motivations and what they want. When we're trying to influence on a larger scale, where you're in the online space and you can have hundreds if not thousands of clients, is there anything that you feel we can be thinking about or doing where.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:15:11]:
I don't know, can we tap into the majority of what people want or, you know, what they value?

Suz Chadwick [00:15:20]:
I think that's a really great question. To be fair. Zeus, it's an excellent question. And I'm thinking about the online space and the work that we're doing. I think foundationally we are selling a brand identity or a service or a product to a group of people who have a vested interest in what it is that we're wanting to sell. So we're speaking to a reflection of ourselves and this is a foundation of business and this is why we want. Don't want to get caught up. And I get do the same.

Suz Chadwick [00:15:54]:
I said it to you last week, Suze. So caught up in the opinions of others, forgetting that my voice is vital to connect with the people who want my services because the rest, they're never going to work with me, buy from me, be part of my circle, because they don't want to be. So I think when we're looking at it from that larger scale, let's just remember that people buy from people like themselves or from people that they aspire to be like. So therefore we've probably got some vested interests. So it's more about community building and like trying to speak to the majority where possible. I saw the other day you put polls up on your Insta stories. That's a prime example. Okay, so I can't please everybody, but I can actually go to the majority and I can see what they want.

Suz Chadwick [00:16:46]:
And that information will actually tell me a little bit about their values and where they are at the moment. You know, if it's somebody trying to build, you know, financial act, I can never say that word, financial knowledge. Thank you. At the vivant, you know, then that's probably a big motivator for those. Them at that moment. Great. I can, I can see that 49 of the poll takers are concerned about that at the minute. That is something to influence towards.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:17:16]:
Yeah, I mean, I think that just based on what you said there too, I feel like there's two parts of it. The first one is you really identifying exactly where you want to play. Like what are your strengths, what is it that you want to be doing, how can you be better at it? And really just leaning into that because obviously we can't be everything to everybody.

Suz Chadwick [00:17:37]:
No.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:17:37]:
So that's kind of the first half is. It's like the poll I put up. It's like these. What do you want more from me? These are four things. So I'm saying this is what I can do. Out of the things that I can do, what speaks to you the most? What do you want more of? And then I think the other side is that once we've decided who it is that we want to be speaking to and what we want to be offering, then, you know, like you were saying before, it's like having those conversations being, you know, in that kind of industry, hearing what people say, knowing what it is that they need, but also being okay in your own values, alignment with that as that as well.

Suz Chadwick [00:18:20]:
Definitely.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:18:21]:
Yeah. And so is it. What else do we need to be thinking about when it comes to, I guess, going down that path of influence with, with our communities?

Suz Chadwick [00:18:34]:
I think that one important thing is when we're thinking about getting buy in. So say we're the influencer and we've got a target. It sounds awful. Love anything.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:18:47]:
I know what you mean.

Suz Chadwick [00:18:49]:
Yeah. And we have this target. We have the, the person we're trying to influence. We don't just have to think about who are they, demographic, that kind of stuff, what all of the, the kind of, the humanness of them. Because yes, we want to talk through those kind of filters as often as we possibly can, but we have to also remember that they have a. They're looking at us, then they are. They have a, an interest in if we can do the things that we say. And what I mean by this is.

Suz Chadwick [00:19:25]:
So not only are we thinking about influencing them through talking in their language. Well, actually we have got to tick some boxes because people will be thinking, if we're trying to get somebody to invest in us, they're going to be thinking, well, can she do it? Is she going to damage my reputation? Does she follow through? What's her track record. What's, you know, the, the financial cost going to be? Is there going to be an actual return on investment? Like we have actually got to prove. And you said this on the course the other day. I'd said something and you were like, you know, that's authority positioning. But yeah, we have to think when we're speaking to somebody. We're also trying to let them know that we are credible, trustworthy and we can do the things that we say we are going to do. Because if there is ever somebody a doubt in somebody's mind, then they're never ever going to want to engage with us because that trust isn't there.

Suz Chadwick [00:20:23]:
What's that saying? I love it. Trust is the foundation of everything. Okay. Trust and integrity. But people can trust in us to get it wrong. You know, it's not always about trusting to do the right thing, but we can trust someone who's going to get it wrong every time. We can trust somebody's not going to commit. We can trust somebody's not going to show up on time and is not what we want whatsoever.

Suz Chadwick [00:20:47]:
So that's another lens that we can look at influencing through how are we stepping up?

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:20:51]:
Yeah, so interesting. I was sharing with my community a little while ago that I feel like in the last six or nine months one of the biggest reasons that a lot of clients have come to me is being consistency.

Suz Chadwick [00:21:04]:
Yes.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:21:04]:
They've said to me, you are so consistent. You always show up. Like I want to be more like that. And so just it's not even what I talk about. I mean it could be, but it's just the showing up. And it kind of comes back to the trust element is that it's really easy for somebody to tell you that they're going to do something, but if you're not seeing them follow through themselves and show up and do the thing, etc. Then that trust is going to take a much like so much longer to build if we can't see them following through.

Suz Chadwick [00:21:43]:
Yeah, exactly. And proximity is power, Suze. So that's really crucial what you're saying there. And this, I think this for the online space as well. I work with global teams. My presence is zero. I spoke to you the other day. I use it like my network massively.

Suz Chadwick [00:22:01]:
And I show up in my network, you know, I'm constantly, hey, how are we doing? Just letting you know about X, Y and Z. So I fall back onto that. Because when we are not physically in front of somebody else shoving our face in constantly, people forget we Exist and therefore the network gets smaller. And therefore the influence goes to the person who is. Is that even if they are nowhere near as good as you, because their faces. And it's easy, the brain always wants to make the easiest choice that it possibly can. It would. We can have a hold of the podcast on this.

Suz Chadwick [00:22:33]:
Like, the brain is as lazy as hell. And that's for kind of energy preservation. Therefore, if somebody is stood in front of them continuously, even if they do a substandard job, but they've laid out do this, nine times out of ten, something is going to go, yes, because they're not seeing the experts, they're not seeing everybody else, or there are so many barriers to access that they're exhausted at the thought.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:23:01]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, this has been. I feel like there's been this message in the online space for a while now. And I do want to go down the path of the brain is lazy as well, because I think that that has such a huge impact on influence and our ability to connect with our audience. But, yeah, the saying in the online space is somebody who is half as qualified and half as good as you is getting all the business because they're the one who's showing up. And it's because they're the one. Like, if somebody's looking for a solution and you're not there and you're not showing up and you're not sharing what it is that you have, how can you possibly influence them? How can you possibly, like, show them what you're capable of and how you understand them if you're not there doing, doing the work? And so I know so many people get so upset. It's like, oh, my God, I see this person and they're, they're rubbish.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:23:54]:
Or they're not as good or they don't have as much experience, but they seem to be more successful. But we sit and we talk about it, but we don't do anything about it.

Suz Chadwick [00:24:05]:
Yeah, and can I speak to that? Because this is actually something that I found extremely frustrating. So there was somebody who's very big online, excuse me, and they were looking for serious professionals to, like, do some work. And I had a conversation with a friend about this and I was like, oh, so? And so is looking for some, like, experts. And this friend was like, they are not going to work with anybody who doesn't have thousands and thousands of followers who are not seen everywhere and really visible. I was like, well, what if that person does a crap job? They were like, they don't care. They care about the visibility because the visibility is powerful. And I remember being really irritated, like, oh, my God, there are so many, like, full experts who would crush this. But because they have chosen a different networking strategy or whatever, they don't get a seat at the pipe, at the table over somebody who just isn't qualified, but maybe can talk the talk.

Suz Chadwick [00:25:11]:
But that's. That's the modern world, isn't it? To be fair? Like, we have to play the game. If we want to actually kind of commit to the work, we have got to show up and be seen. And that's like the lesson that I'm learning now. Like, I can be as qualified as I want to and have a great network, which I do. But if I want to take my words, that next level, it's tough.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:25:35]:
Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:25:36]:
Got to show up. Got to.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:25:38]:
Yeah. And I mean, it is really interesting. There is. You know, I've been to a few events recently and I was. This is going to sound terrible, but anyway, I was quite surprised. Like, the people who were on the panels didn't really have a big online presence and they were talking about content and social media and all the rest of it. So I was quite surprised just because of where we were at. But it was their network that had gotten them in the room.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:26:06]:
So I feel like it's like both. I feel like you've got to. You've got to be good, you've got to have the network and you've got to be in contact with the people who are making decisions. But for those of you, like, where we're in an. On, like a larger online space, at the end of the day, somebody who's got a bigger following, you're going to assume that they've got something to say.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:27]:
I assume, yes.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:26:29]:
Yeah. Like, that's what I. That's how I sort of see it as well. So even when I'm looking for somebody, like, online who I think might be quite good, I do look at their following. I'm like, are you somebody that shows up? Are you somebody that shares what you've got? And so that does influence my perception of them.

Suz Chadwick [00:26:51]:
Yeah. Like, I wouldn't even say that I think of it at that level. I just think, oh, they. I mean, this is from. Somebody has like, zero online. Oh, they're no good. They've got, like, nobody because of social proof. So social proof is this whole idea.

Suz Chadwick [00:27:09]:
And again, this is the foundation of influence that when I teach it, it's like social proof is like this kind of foundation of people are hardwired to go with the vast majority. End of story. And we can go into the neuroscience, but I won't do it. But we are hardwired to go with the tribe and well, it's a survival thing, isn't it? Exactly, it's a survival thing. So the more numbers, the bigger the tribe. There's safety there. There's a reason that they have got a big, strong, thriving tribe. And so we do ignore.

Suz Chadwick [00:27:44]:
Honestly, I'm just talking on the kind of large scale online space now. And so we go with it. And that's why when we look at canned laughter, you know, if you think of friends and you think of calm laughter, designed to think, well, everybody else is doing, get our laugh. When we look at reviews, 9 out of 10 people would recommend, again, this is social proof. The vast majority are bought into this. And it's everywhere. Yeah, like this concept literally going into like on biology and using kind of our nervous system to get us to engage in, to buy. But yeah, that is.

Suz Chadwick [00:28:22]:
Yeah, that's my run. Sorry.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:28:24]:
No, I love it. And so let's talk more about that. Yeah, because when we think about the list of the things that influence us. So obviously the first thing that we were talking about was that connection. It's like me understanding what your values are, what you want, what motivates you. So that personal connection. We were talking about authority as well. So even, you know, when we were at retreat, you said, you know, I work with the leaders at NATO.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:28:50]:
For me I'm like, oh my God, that's so impressive. And so we're also influenced by like the status of.

Suz Chadwick [00:28:59]:
Yeah, yeah, like perceived. Because I said, no, I, you know, I gave no other information than, you know, working within this space. But because, yeah, it's just that one word. But we know nothing about the context, nothing about the background. But we do it with everything, don't we? We attach a meaning to a word and it's like kapow. That must mean status, that must mean excellence, that must mean yes, whatever. And then we're sold.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:29:27]:
And it's so interesting because going back to the fact that the brain is lazy. The brain is like, I don't want to ask any questions. That sounds really good, like, amazing. And I was saying that depending on which room I'm speaking in, I'm very conscious of the brands that I drop. So if I'm in a bigger corporate room, then I will drop certain brands because I know that they hold certain kudos. Within the online world, the things that hold kudos can be like Network and association. So if I've worked with somebody who has a very big, like, if I went on Diary of a CEO, that is like, yeah, one day that is like, kudos. It's like immediate association or, you know, perceived quality of a person, perceived level of excellence, like you said, by association as well.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:30:22]:
And so we said, what else do we. And we were just talking about community and tribe. So the bigger your community, the more influence you can potentially have, because people see that as a strength. Like, you obviously have something good to say if you've got a strong community.

Suz Chadwick [00:30:42]:
Yeah, absolutely. And we're hardwired. We're hardwired for connection. As I was saying before, it's like a basic kind of survival instinct. And I think one of the reasons that we struggle so much to influence is because it feels, like I said, like a bit murky and a bit mucky. And we don't want to feel as though we are being pushed out of the tribe. And this is completely. This is so wired into us.

Suz Chadwick [00:31:07]:
So if we actually looked at the brain, the parts, the same networks or overlapping networks light up for perceived pain, imagined pain and physical pain. So that whole idea of like, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt these. It does hurt us. It literally lights up the same. We physically feel it. We don't want to get thrown out of our perceived tribes because then we don't know if we can survive. We need each other. And therefore we tend to, like, stay small and stay connected and stay together for safety.

Suz Chadwick [00:31:41]:
Because our nervous system, everything we do, is all about safety. It's about balance in the body and it's about using like the minimal amount of energy as possible. So most of the time we don't want to put our head up. We don't want to be the person leading because that's petrifying. We could get thrown out of the tribe. And then those comments come flooding through and you might have a thousand positive comments on a post and one negative, but you, you feel the negative one and you think everybody's lying on the positive. They're just being kind to me. They're just being nice.

Suz Chadwick [00:32:17]:
And this is because we're all have a negativity bias. So we're designed to notice negative stimuli over positive. It's survival. And then we remember it, we remember criticism and it wires in because the nervous system then goes, well, I could get through another trip here. This is petrifying because it has perceived a danger that doesn't exist and therefore it keeps us small. So to truly influence, we have to remember that everybody is in the same trap. And the only way that we can influence and we can lead is in the act of bleeding, if that makes sense. Because we have to teach the nervous system what safety is.

Suz Chadwick [00:32:58]:
And we have to teach the nervous system that actually, I'm okay to go to the front, I'm okay to lead the pack because when I do that, everybody else will say, look, she's got a big following. I feel safe with her. I feel safe. And so we have to, like, we have to literally train our nervousness again. It's a whole other, like, topic we could discuss. We literally. But. But you can't train a nervous system to have a sense of safety without doing it.

Suz Chadwick [00:33:31]:
So when we're looking. So everything that we do is like, we want to be safe on nervous system wants to be safe. And everything is about survival when we're looking at the brain and the nervous system. So basically all that we want to do is stay alive, procreate and raise those children. That's it. That's all our nervous system is really concerned about. And therefore what it wants to do is what it knows is going to keep it safe and going to keep it alive. So.

Suz Chadwick [00:34:03]:
And I actually found this really sodding and liberating when I first heard this. So that means that we will tolerate what we know won't kill us, even if it makes us feel shit, even if it feels excruciating, like, this is somebody with ocd. I tolerated that stuff for years because my nervous system could make sense of it if that makes sense. And we all do that. We all go through our day to day just doing this stuff that we may not like, but feels safe to us. And then what we decide to do, because the nervous system is like, I understand this, this is kind of tolerable. And then we think, I'm going to do something new, I'm going to learn to influence, I'm going to show up, I'm going to go online. Like, we're going to go and do whatever it could be.

Suz Chadwick [00:34:50]:
And then the nervous system goes, oh, what, you want to do something new? It's going to take energy. Like, I don't. Because our brain, so the brain is 2% of our kind of total mass and just to tick it over, it takes like 20% of our kind of glucose every day to keep it going. So it's really draining. You know, it takes so much energy to keep it going. And it doesn't store energy within itself either. We have to like consume It. And then when we learning something new that goes, it's like 50.

Suz Chadwick [00:35:28]:
So it's hugely draining on our system. So our nervous system is like that. I do not, not want to risk the unknown when I can't keep you safe there. So let's remember that our nervous system is our bestie. It's always trying to keep us safe. We've got to love it, even if it gets it wrong. So when we actually want to change and grow, we think, I'm going to do this new thing. And it feels horrible.

Suz Chadwick [00:35:51]:
Oh, my God. You feel uncomfortable. There's that voice in your head. I call her indoors bike. She's going at me. You're useless. You know, good at this. What do you think? Who do you think you are? You know, you chop yourself down and then you physically feel it.

Suz Chadwick [00:36:05]:
Oh, my God, you feel that in your chest. You feel that new jaw. And then you're waiting. Then the brain is looking, isn't it, for the horrible backlash because you dared to post something, you know, waiting to be, you know, for the tiger to jump out. And this is basically a really positive sign that you're on the right track.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:36:29]:
When the alarm bells go off.

Suz Chadwick [00:36:32]:
Yeah, because there's a. There's a distinction between the alarm bells and that's what we forget. We feel that when we are growing, it feels uncomfortable. And that's your nervous system trying to keep you safe. It's trying to pull you back to what it knows and keep you small. So when we see those first ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. The voice is like, yes, I'm on the right path because I'm making my self do something I'm not used to. So my nervous system doesn't like it.

Suz Chadwick [00:36:58]:
So keep going. And it's got the zone of stretch. There's an intolerance. So this is like our, like, normal comfort zone. And then we're going into the stretch zone here where learning happens. And we're basically, by repeat, repeatedly showing up, turning up every day, ignoring her indoors, doing things to make our body feel calm. But every day doing the scary thing. We retrain our nervous system to feel safe.

Suz Chadwick [00:37:23]:
And that zone of comfort gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And it literally begins to like. It impacts our stress response and we. We have less stress responses to what was once the perceived threat. The only thing that we want to be mindful of is that we want to do in small steps. Because if it is that I suddenly, you know, I want to go from never having a public speech, I public speak all the time. But, you know, say when, if, when. I've never done any public speaking, super comfortable just talking to my friends, nobody else.

Suz Chadwick [00:37:58]:
So then suddenly be like, right, you can speak in front of 3,000 people tomorrow. Sink or swim. My nervous system is going to absolutely flip its lids and it's going to be too much, too much, too fast, too soon. So it was. It wasn't helpful to my nervous system because what I set was too big. So that will actually send me into overwhelmed panic attacks, really severe physical and like, internal monologue responses. And that is again my nervous system saying, get back here. Get back to where you know you're safe.

Suz Chadwick [00:38:35]:
And how many of us can actually think of when we tried something and it felt so crappy that we never tried it again? And it's not because we're not capable. It's because we didn't do it in a nervous system, friendly way. Small, daily, tiny little chunks, 1% every single day, and then we get to the big places. But all my belief is, like, leaping into too much, too fast, too soon just makes us play super duper small. So I'm not sure if that even answered the question or if that was tangencies. I love it.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:39:06]:
I love that tangent because I talk a lot to my audience about mindset, and I think this is all tied in. Even this morning when I was on a BBA call with my clients, I'm just like, I. And I find this a really interesting one in reflection as well. It's like, I post and I don't think anything of it.

Suz Chadwick [00:39:23]:
Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:39:23]:
Like, I'm just like, okay, so we'll do, like, I don't know, a reel or two a day. Like, I'll get on stories. Like, I just do it. And I have no thoughts about was that okay? There was probably a time when I felt like that, but I don't really feel like that anymore. And even this morning when I was talking to clients, I just said, you know, it's just being okay with going through the river of misery. Like, being okay with going through the suck. Like, I have said before, I have sucked on TikTok for over a year. I'm still in the suck.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:39:57]:
But I do it because I'm like, well, if I don't do it, I'm never going to get better. There'll never be a moment when it clicks. And I'm like, oh, okay. Now I'm kind of where I am in other platforms where I don't really think about it and I connect with my audience and it does what I need it to do. And so I think it's just really interesting as well around our mindset of being in the suck. Like being in the discomfort and thinking and what we think about it, like how we see ourselves in that. Because I'm just like, I'm going to suck. It's going to be awkward for you and me.

Suz Chadwick [00:40:36]:
Yes. We get. We're all going to feel like we come this. Like, yeah, for sure.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:40:42]:
But I'm just gonna keep going. Like, I just. It's just a really interesting one because I feel like there's a lot of people that just refuse to kind of go through that river of misery.

Suz Chadwick [00:40:54]:
Yeah. But this. Because they're so scared of the perceived rejection. And you know, I still get it sometimes that I put. I posted, I had deleted because I'm rebranding. I deleted everything. I. My socials and I was like starting again fresh.

Suz Chadwick [00:41:08]:
And I put like one post up and I ever thought this. And then I laughed at myself. I was like, who cares? Who's going to die over my shitty post? Nobody. And if somebody is sat. And again, this is all about the reframe in life. It's about reframing everything. Like, where is the joy? Where is the connection? Who do I love to see and be inspired by? The people that actively participate in living their life. Not the ones who were just coasting.

Suz Chadwick [00:41:35]:
I don't want to be those people. I want nothing to do with that. I want to be the person who is like hot mess but super happy in. In the messiness of life. So it's. How do you actually reframe it yourself that nobody's gonna die and showing up is sexy. I want to see people. I want to see what you're interested in.

Suz Chadwick [00:41:55]:
I want to feel with you. I want to feel that humanness of you. So it's reframing it. Who's going to die. And also nobody at the same level as you or who's in front of you is ever, ever going to judge you because they have been through the suck themselves. The people who tear you down are the people who are too scared to do anything that they truly, truly want to because they're scared of judgment and going back to the nervous system and, you know, being tribal. What do you think their tribe, what that do you think their nervous system's doing? One of them. They're pushing outside of the tribe.

Suz Chadwick [00:42:32]:
Who do they think they are? Bang. They're. They're showing me the spaces that I want to grow and I'm too scared to so therefore, I'm going to keep them in line. I'm going to be angry at them. Hurt people. Hurt people. Like, you know, people who are dicks online. That says so much about them.

Suz Chadwick [00:42:52]:
That's how sad they are in life. And unfulfilled they are that they have to go online and be mean to strangers.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:43:00]:
Like, yeah, I love it. There was so much in there. I'm like, number one, showing up is sexy. I feel like that is. That needs to be its own thing. I love that. I think that's so important for us to. To think about as well.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:43:16]:
That is one of my favorite sayings is nobody who has done more than you will ever criticize you.

Suz Chadwick [00:43:22]:
Yeah, that is so true.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:43:24]:
That. Yeah, that. And also people will love you and.

Suz Chadwick [00:43:27]:
People will hate you and it'll have.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:43:28]:
Nothing to do with you. Those are my two favorite quotes as well. And it was so interesting. I was watching a girl this morning. She's an Aussie in London and she was. She just popped up in my feed. She had like 600 comments on it. And she was just chatting.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:43:43]:
She's like, I've lived in all these different countries and I'm about to move again. And she was literally just talking us through what she was thinking and feeling. And it was a long video and I sat and I watched it because I was just. It was like storytelling. And as I looked in the comments, there was one guy that was like, this was a bit of a ramble. It was very long. It probably could have been a lot shorter. Did I really need to know all of that? And somebody else.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:44:09]:
You watched it and somebody else commented and said, so you watch the whole thing and now you're complaining, where's your videos? And yes, I heart. Yes, I hearted that because I was like, it's the whole thing. We were talking about Brene Brown. It's like the cheap seats, the people in the arena who were doing the work, who have the blood, sweat and tears and the dirt and they're in the sock and it's hard and they're like working it out. And you've got the people who are in the cheap seats going, who do you think you are to like the videos too long? Let me complain about it. Even though I have not done anything. And I think we've just got to. I think that's something that I have had in my mind for a long time.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:44:56]:
I'm just like, I'm here for a certain group of people.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:00]:
Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:45:00]:
If there's somebody that doesn't like what I say or do, it's okay for them to go somewhere else. I have no problem with that. And so then I have no expectations of myself where I need to please everybody. Like, I just don't care.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:18]:
And you become boring as hell. But when you try to please everybody, you are. There's a guy I follow, he's called Francis on Instagram, right. He's obsessed with trains. Obsessed with trains. Like, oh, my God. He looks at all of the seam trains and he likes. He is so full of joy every time he sees these different trains.

Suz Chadwick [00:45:42]:
Oh, he is like, fully, like. He is like, sexy as hell because he is so committed to the things that he loves. I'm like, I am buying into you. Like, I like. You are so hot. He's not like. But, you know, your. Your enthusiasm is so attractive because you haven't tried to please everybody.

Suz Chadwick [00:46:02]:
You have just gone for what brings you joy. And I. You and I. I would listen to you for hours because I don't care if we're learning about loads of locomotives, electric trains, what the chuff ever. Like, you have got something for you and that is. You make me feel. You know that guy on that post. It's a bit long.

Suz Chadwick [00:46:23]:
Wasn't for you. Love, like the sense of entitlement. Yeah. And it's. But it's a sense of entitlement. Like if. Just so you know, like, like what? Get out. Get out.

Suz Chadwick [00:46:37]:
Yeah. Drives me batty.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:46:40]:
I love it. But I think just coming back to the influence piece as well is that people who are truly themselves, people who are just like, they're just being themselves. They're just showing up and they've got the joy and they're sharing the. The work as well as their personal life or whatever they want to share. When somebody is truly passionate and they show up and they share from a place of authenticity and not caring, that is so influential. That is like, what. Who are you? How can I learn more? What can I buy from you? I call it falling down the rabbit hole. So sometimes I will find somebody online and I'll just be like, oh, my God.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:47:24]:
So a while, a couple of months ago, I found this guy called Ryan Leak. I was talking about him at retreat. He's a leadership and communication coach and speaker. I believe he's in the U.S. he came up in my feed and the way that he speaks and the stories that he shares. I fell down the rabbit hole. I'm like, this is the first time I'm listening to you. You sound amazing.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:47:46]:
I love the stories that you tell. I Love your energy. I always talk about your energies, your invitation. And then I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm on his Instagram and I'm following, and then I website, and then I'm like, what do you offer? Like, I'm not even looking for a leadership coach, but I'm like, what do you sell? Like, tell me what you sell.

Suz Chadwick [00:48:05]:
Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:48:05]:
And so I think that when we truly show up as ourselves and we do decide to be okay in the suck, when it feels uncomfortable or where we're just trying to figure out our path, I think that that vulnerability of it's not always perfect, and it's not always. Is exactly the way it's supposed to be. But I'm here and I'm showing up and I'm sharing what I think, and I'm being passionate about it. I think that is hugely influential.

Suz Chadwick [00:48:37]:
It is. I agree, because I feel what I took from there as well as vulnerability is key, but vulnerability is different from acting like a victim. Oh. So, you know, and. And that is something that we can do as a protection mechanic. I know I picked that one because it's one that I can. I can fall into. You know, I.

Suz Chadwick [00:48:54]:
Cautious about the way I can, or I used to be cautious about the way I show up, cautious about the way that I engaged and what I did, and I would speak about it, and I felt like I was being vulnerable, and actually I wasn't. I was being a victim because I was scared. And so true vulnerability to me is like, oh, this feels really uncomfortable, but I'm embracing that suck, and I'm happy to discuss that. So I think I did another podcast with a friend of mine, and I was on about how there was this period in my life where my ego was over inflated and my confidence was really low, and she was like, whoa, dangerous mix. And I was like, yeah, it really was, because it means I never showed up authentically because I was trying to. I was stuck in, like, this victim mindset where I wanted to please and, you know, with love. I love myself, but wanting to please everybody else and wanting to hit all of their, you know, what. What do they need in the exact right way for them, you know? And yes, we.

Suz Chadwick [00:49:55]:
I've said at the beginning we have to think about other people, but I work in training development, facilitation. I cannot please 20, 30 people in one go. And so I literally. There's both positives and negatives to this story. So I would walk into rooms and I would go to teach, and I'd have Panic attacks in front of of everybody. Like, full panic attacks. And I'd have to stop and I'd have to calm myself, and I'd get through it and I'd do it. And the reason that I did it was because I wasn't being authentic, because I was going in there shitting myself, thinking about how I was going to let people down and how I wasn't going to hit all of their needs, instead of thinking, the best way to serve every single person in this room is to be authentically myself.

Suz Chadwick [00:50:48]:
And because that's the only way I can have a connection, that's the only way I can actually have the vulnerability to speak to them and ask what they need. Because I felt like I should know. Because I'm the boss. I'm the one who's doing X, Y, and Z. And so I kind of one, I'm really grateful for that gift. You know, I could embarrass myself in public like nobody's business, and it's okay. But also it gave me that gift of I let people breathe. So when I work, I'm like, come on, we all need to take three breaths.

Suz Chadwick [00:51:21]:
I need it as much as anybody else. And I allow myself. I always say I'm nervous. You know, you think you're nervous. You're not the one stands at the front doing the talking. Let's just take three breaths. And at least 50% of the room also need that release. And then I'm like, I'm here to serve you.

Suz Chadwick [00:51:37]:
And the best way I can do that is by being myself. And the second I allow that authenticity to show up is the second it becomes playful. And it's the second you see everybody in the room sit up because they want to feel. And I don't know if that was messy. I hope that was clear what I was trying to say. Like, you have to put the ego down. You have to, like, love it, thank it, and think. No, like, the messiness is where the magic happens.

Suz Chadwick [00:52:05]:
Because the messiness is usually actually so powerful, because it shows what you know that makes sense, because it allows you the freedom to actually speak with authority.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:52:15]:
And I think I mean what I hear from that as well. And something that I talk about when I'm speaking to clients who want to be speakers is the trusting yourself. Like, you were asked to come and speak for a reason. They somebody saw what you can bring to the table. And so you've also got to just trust that and be like, I'm coming. I'm going to be here. I'm going to be speaking. And I know this is going to be great.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:52:41]:
Like, I may not have everything worked out. We may not have it being perfect, but I know that when I show up in my authenticity and I come to share, you know, from a place of. I'm here to give you as much as I can to make this amazing, to create a space for you to share your story, to do the thing, then I just know it's always. For me personally, I always know that it's going to go well. Like, even with retreat, I knew what I wanted to talk about, but I don't structure things in a way that it's like, we're going to do this, and then we're going to do this, and then we're going to do this. I'm like, let's get the vibe in the room. Let's see what's going to work. And then I've got lots of different things that I can pull out of my bag and make sure that it works for the group, that I've got the setting that I've got.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:53:34]:
And so I think the trusting yourself is such a big part of it as well.

Suz Chadwick [00:53:40]:
Yeah, exactly. And sometimes you're going to be in the wrong room, and it's gonna suck like it is. But that's your biggest gift. Like, that's it when. With the times when it felt messy or really hard. Like, it's not that you were authentic. That was the problem. It was that maybe it was the wrong room, maybe it was the wrong story, maybe it was the wrong setting.

Suz Chadwick [00:54:05]:
But that's the gift, because then you can use that information to make it better. Like, I have found that the more authentic I am, the. The kind of, the stronger the compass. Does that make sense? I know where I'm supposed to be. I know what room I'm supposed to be in. And I think about yay says and naysayers as well. Like, you discussed this at the beginning, Suze. Like, what's the right brand to drop? So I.

Suz Chadwick [00:54:30]:
I will teach, and I'll, you know, I'll teach a lot online, and I'll see all of these faces, and, like, you can see the vibe. Like, and you can read those nervous systems through the screen. So I already know who's on my team just by looking at them. And then I listen to the others, and I'm like, right, this person needs facts and figures. So therefore, my stories are going to be strategically tailored to them. That person needs emotion. This person wants logic. But it is by allowing myself to be authentic that I'm able to read them because I'm.

Suz Chadwick [00:55:00]:
I've put myself down, I put my ego down. So I'm actually invested in looking at everybody, listening to them and learning to tailor to their needs. Does that make sense?

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:55:10]:
Yeah. 100. Because I think that the whole thing is, is that when you're wrapped up in ego, you're constantly thinking about yourself. When you're wrapped up in authenticity, I think that you're open to hearing what everybody else has got to say and how you show up for that as well. So I think that there's like, one's like a straight jacket, and the other one's like, open arms. I'm like, like, it's like, you think you're nervous, like you're not up here speaking to me. That's open arms coming into a room and being like, right, I've got my thing. This is what we're going to do.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:55:41]:
This is how we're going to do it. Without even thinking about the room is like a straight jacket. It, like, confines you to what you've got planned and how it's going to work. Now, obviously, you need some structure, but I just think. I just think when you think about yourself, it becomes a lot harder. And one of the, you know, one of the things that I know from a speaking perspective, it's like the only difference between fear and excitement is the thought that you have. And so. And so, you know, before I get on stage, I'm like, this is going to be freaking amazing.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:56:18]:
Everybody's going to love it. I'm going to bring the energy. I'm going to say exactly what I need to say for the people that are here. Like, I'm visualizing people are going to be coming up to me after. They're going to go, oh, my God, that was so good. Like, I am preparing my mind for this to be the freaking best thing that I've ever done. And I try and get my clients who are wanting to be speakers, like, along those lines instead of the, oh, my God, what if I forget what I'm going to say? This? I feel so sick. Oh, my gosh, I'm going to throw up.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:56:46]:
So nervous. What if they don't like it? What if this doesn't go the way, like, those are the two paths. And I feel like that's the trusting yourself and being, like, going to do it. This is going to be so good. I'm going to do it. Or the, oh, my gosh, like, what if it doesn't work?

Suz Chadwick [00:57:04]:
You straight jacket.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:57:05]:
Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:57:05]:
Yeah. Like you have just described a four step process and emotional regulation right there. So what you do there is literally what like the Marines are taught to do when it looks at stress mastery. Yes. Emotions are social constructs. They are, they are made by us, all of us together. We actually create an emotion and we put meaning to them and how we choose to perceive that feeling. Yeah.

Suz Chadwick [00:57:35]:
You know, if the energy, if we say it's anxiety, it's anxiety. If we say it's excitement, it is. But the magic with what you've just said is that if I see my stress as negative, it will have a detrimental impact on my body and brain. So I will begin to lose my pfc. So this is where creativity, lateral thinking, all of that kind of stuff lives. So it will literally begin to turn down this, the, the connections there so I can't think well, which is when I'll start to spiral and stutter and go blank. And it will begin to impact my heart, my lungs. It will turn off all non essential functioning because I have seen the stress as damaging and dangerous.

Suz Chadwick [00:58:15]:
When I choose choice to perceive that sensation as a positive one, it has the opposite effect. It primes our brain, you know, it turns all of our systems like into like a more like focused on so that we can perform exceptionally and we can scan our environment for things to help us actually thrive in that space. And the process, as you just said, we visualize it because the brain doesn't know the difference between fiction and reality. So what we tell it becomes reality. So we visualize, we practice. This is about making the nervous system feel safe, you know, continuously. This is what it's going to feel like. Sensory language.

Suz Chadwick [00:58:57]:
And it will begin to actually have a sense of safety. I forgot step three for some reason. It will come back to me. And then step four is we have a. We breathe, you know, we try and use like slow our body, use our break, which is our breath. To actually prime it is to do exceptionally well. But yeah, I forgot one of the steps. But you literally use it.

Suz Chadwick [00:59:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:59:25]:
Yeah. And I mean whenever I step on a stage, I always stop. I have a little ritual. I stop, I take a really deep breath and I look out and I eyeball people in the audience, like with a big smile.

Suz Chadwick [00:59:40]:
Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:59:41]:
And I'm just like, this is me being present in the moment before I start. This is me allowing my nervous system to just regulate to this stage and get excited about what's about to come.

Suz Chadwick [00:59:56]:
Yeah.

Dr. Lucie Miller [00:59:57]:
And I don't care if that's, I Don't care if that takes, like, 15, 20 seconds. I'm just gonna, like, I'm just gonna allow. And I think that this. The discomfort thing is, like, we sometimes feel like we have to perform and we have to start now, and we've got to, like, like. And I'm just, like, sometimes it's okay just to give yourself the minute that you need in order to show up fully in a way that works for you, rather than, like, oh, like, I've got to get started now kind of thing.

Suz Chadwick [01:00:32]:
Yeah, exactly. And it's powerful. That pause is powerful. I do my own version. So before I work, I go through, like, a list of all of the names. It's very much the same. And I think of that person, and I literally, like. I'm like, I can't wait to meet you.

Suz Chadwick [01:00:49]:
I can't wait to be of some support to you. And I'm like. I'll say, like, I'm so thankful that you have given eight hours of your life to me. I'm gonna do the best that I can for you. And I do that, like, through every single name, or if it's a larger group, I'll do lots with the military as well. Military families. I'll teach hundreds and webinars. And I do it, like, I'm so grateful that I get to support you here.

Suz Chadwick [01:01:15]:
And because I have changed them from, like, threats to friends. The second that I actually enter those spaces, I'm like, hi, team. And you hear your voice drops, so you can actually tell which part the nervous system you're in by, like, how your voice is sounding. And all of a sudden it's open, like you were saying. It becomes less of a straitjacket because I've decided to humanize them and to give thanks to them as well. So they've lost their kind of danger. Yeah. I love people.

Suz Chadwick [01:01:47]:
So good.

Dr. Lucie Miller [01:01:48]:
I feel like we could talk forever, but we've been chatting for an hour.

Suz Chadwick [01:01:52]:
Wow, that's good. Faster.

Dr. Lucie Miller [01:01:55]:
I feel like we were like this at retreat, which is. Which is so good, because everything that you talk about and that you teach, I'm always so fascinated by. We were talking about the nervous system and money and influence and neuroscience and all the rest of it, So I knew that this was going to be such a good conversation for my audience as well. So I so appreciate you coming on the podcast, Lucy.

Suz Chadwick [01:02:21]:
Thank you for having me. It's been a. Talking to you is always a gift, so thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Lucie Miller [01:02:27]:
Amazing. Well, listen, we will leave it there. Who. Who how can people get in contact with you? We will have all of your links links in the show notes. But if somebody's listening right now, where's the best place to connect?

Suz Chadwick [01:02:39]:
At the moment, you're best going on to LinkedIn and finding me under Lucien Miller, which is Lucie and N E. I spend lots of time there. Otherwise you can find me on Instagram, which is Lucy L, U, C I E underscore socially under circle constructors. And I'm going to be working very hard on showing up there a lot more.

Dr. Lucie Miller [01:03:05]:
I love it. So, so good. Amazing. Well, yeah, like I said, we'll have all of those links in the show notes, but otherwise, thanks so much for being here.

Suz Chadwick [01:03:12]:
I can't wait to share this. Yes, that's you. Thank you so much for having me, Suze. Take care.

Suz Chadwick [01:03:17]:
Bye.