Suzanne Chadwick 0:00
Hello, my lovelies, so amazing to have you here. Today I am doing something a little different. I feel like I said that to you all the time. But I was on Ryan McPherson's podcast, he has the storytelling and movement. And we had such an in depth, awesome conversation. And he asked me lots of questions that I think would be really helpful for you. So we were talking all about building a personal brand thought leadership storytelling. I asked him if it would be okay for me to repost the podcast onto my podcast because I really wanted to share it with you. And he was very generous and said, yes, so I am sharing part one with you. It is a very long episode. So I wanted to split it into two parts. So this is part one, the next episode will be part two, I think that there is a lot of gold in the conversation that we're having. And so I wanted to share it with you. And the other thing I wanted to let you know is that I recently did a new master class, which is all about going from unknown to in demand, how to build a brand that sells for you. The feedback on the masterclass was so good that I wanted to continue to share it with you even though it's not live. So if you want to go and grab the replay to that masterclass, all you have to do is go to Sue's chadwick.com, forward slash scale, and you will be able to access that masterclass right now and go and watch it on demand. And I know that you'll get so much out of it. But listen, without further ado, let's dive into Part One of my conversation with Ryan McPherson from storytelling movement.

Ryan McPherson 2:03
I'm here with Suz Chadwick. Welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do and introduce yourself?

Suzanne Chadwick 2:09
Hi, Ryan, thank you so much for having me. I am Suzanne Chadwick. I am a business and branding and personal brand coach for mainly women, but not only and I live in Melbourne, Australia, you can probably tell by the accent. But I've had my business for around about 10 years before starting my own business, I ran a brand agency and before that, I was in sales and recruitment for one of the big four consulting firms. So I've had a bit of a range of things that I've done. But I think the one thing that I have always been passionate about and focused on even when I didn't know what it was, is personal branding. I feel like even when I was in my 20s. And in my corporate job, I was a bit of a you know, I was like, I know, I need to build my brand in this organization if I want to continue to go up the ranks as I really wanted to. And so it's always been something that probably even intuitively, I've understood the power of

Ryan McPherson 3:12
and I'm sure you can connect that journey with those who are just getting into personal branding, and how that experience and those different experiences that you have connect with helping people to build their brand online,

Suzanne Chadwick 3:24
I just think that we're in a time now, where it's kind of essential. We've seen all of the videos, etc. Where, say virgin will have 200,000 followers, but Richard Branson Scott, like 10 million or whatever, the organization has a following, but it's usually the leader who has something to say who is the face of the brand that people really connect with. If you're in business today, it's really important to understand the dynamics of brand, your business brand versus your personal brand. And how you're really building that connection with your audience. Because at the end of the day, that's who we want to connect with. While you might be an apple or an Android person, or you might be a coke or a Pepsi person, whatever it is, we want to connect more with people rather than the brand itself. Are there

Ryan McPherson 4:14
things that the brands, the organizational brands are doing that people should be doing to that people maybe do better than these organizational brands?

Suzanne Chadwick 4:25
I think that when it comes to personal brands, the realness and obviously you talk all about storytelling. I think that people do storytelling really well. Like it's their personal experience. It's their origin story, like I kind of talk about four main stories amongst all the other things and the first one is kind of your origin story. So it's like where you came from how you got there. You know, all of the bits and pieces that we really connect with so if somebody tells me that they're from Australia or they lived in London, or you know, they really love soccer or or whatever it is I will find things where I'm like, Oh, I can connect with you on that. And so our origin stories, I think when you've got a personal brand, that's what people really love. We've got our lessons learned that we can share that. I don't know that companies can really share it. But as people, we can share it. And I think that helps us to be really relatable. So maybe the failures that we've had, I love listening to founder stories, you know, where they were, they failed, and then they triumph. And that's the whole hero's journey that we love. And so whilst Airbnb is a great example, they've got a great story. It's really the founders story that we're listening to, not so much Airbnb story. And then the other thing I love is client stories. Like I want to know how you're good at what you do. I think that when we share how we work with our clients, and what we do, we're building authority. And then I also think that when we share other people's stories, once again, it can be relatable for others. So if you tell me your Brene, brown story, you and I and our best friends, so that I think that when we're a personal brand, it's about connection, it's about relatability. It's about what can I find out about you, that makes me feel like we can now be friends. And we're constantly searching for that. Because we're built for community. We're built for connection. And so when you're in business, I think sometimes we focus too hard on the product. And we miss the opportunity to remember that we're built for connection, and how can we connect better with our customers, our audience of people who want to be part of our world?

Ryan McPherson 6:41
And you just took us through some amazing storytelling formats that can really help to supercharge this personal branding journey. Can you give us some insights into each of those that you mentioned, starting with that origin story?

Suzanne Chadwick 6:55
When I work with clients, this is really interesting. I'll say to a client, tell me your origin story. And they will say, so that I did this. And then I did this, and then I did this. And then I did this, and, you know, tada kind of thing. And I did it a little bit as well, when we first started because I was like, I'm not sure like, should I give you the long version? Or should I give you the short version. And so if I was standing on a stage, if I was sharing this on socials, if I was giving you the longer version, then I'm going to tell you about the fact that I was in recruitment for a long time. And then one day, we ended up needing to recruit 100 consultants for Deloitte in London, across Europe, and they brought in a branding agency. And I didn't know anything about branding Ryan, like I had never really been exposed to it in this way. But this brand agency came in and all of a sudden, we were looking at strategies around brand activations, and building communities online and social media. And this was like 2004. So LinkedIn, and Facebook and all that had really only just been around. And we were looking at now this exciting way of connecting with people. And so we started to use all of these communities a connection points, to attract hundreds and hundreds of consultants through newspaper and billboard ads, and socials. And for me, it was a real aha moment of this is what I want to do. It's almost like an insane. Yeah, that's like part of my story where I can tell you that I was in sales, and then I did this. And then I did that. But if I actually go into what happened, what was the aha moment for me? What was the realisation? What's the story around it, then that's a lot more captivating, than if I just tell you what I did first, then what I did second, then when I did that, I think that when we're looking at our origin stories, the thing that I always encourage clients to do is give me the emotion of the moment that you changed direction, or you had an aha moment that made the decision for you as to what you did next. For me, I could say, I was in sales. And then this is what happened that then got me into branding. And then from there, this is what happened. This is the story. This was the emotion. This was the aha moment that then got me into my own business. And so I can take people on the journey. But rather than just taking them from one thing to another, I'm really showing them an insight into how I felt, what I thought, what I wanted, what was my desire, and then how I did it. And when we can tell people that our origin story really comes to life. And I also think that as a speaker for myself, I might cherry pick moments of my origin story that are relevant for my audience. So I may not always tell my whole origin story, but I might tell one element of my origin story that's really relevant for my audience at the time, and go deep on that particular element of my Our agents story.

Ryan McPherson 10:01
And where do you see people really struggling with telling their origin story because you're working with a lot of different kinds of clients with a lot of different backgrounds. So I imagine you might see some things that are common themes for struggle,

Suzanne Chadwick 10:13
they haven't thought about what they went through at the time. And they haven't practiced telling that story. And so if you're not somebody who commonly speaks or shares stories, I do think that it's something that you've got to learn to do. Well, you know, for me, as I started debating when I was 16, so I had to really convince the audience, I had to share my persuasive arguments, I had to tell them stories about why this is going to be so incredible for them to believe that better I believe that or not, at the time for me to believe. And so I think that if you want to become a good storyteller, and you want to share your origin story, in a powerful way, you've got to practice it, Michael, my goal is who is very famous for storytelling. years ago, I'm talking like seven years ago, I did a workshop with him in Melbourne. And he did this exercise where you pair up with somebody, and you've got three minutes to tell your story. And so you tell your story. And then the person who's just listened, tells you what they heard, like, what were the main things that they remember, what did they hear what did they want to hear more about what really piqued their interest, and then they give you that feedback. And now you've got to retell your story in a minute. And I do this in personal branding workshops with my clients as well. And the reason that you do it is that the more that you share your story, the more you'll see what resonates for people, and then you can start to hone your story a bit more. One of the other things Michael says is your your story can only be honed, or your message can only be honed when it's witnessed. And I've never forgotten that I think it's really powerful. It's only when we tell our stories. It's only when we share our message that we can really know what people are going to connect with. And they're going to love and they're going to like, tell me more about that. If you're wanting to become a good storyteller, if you're wanting to share your origin story, become a good speaker, you've got to be prepared. I always say, to suck a bit first, you've got, you've got to kind of go through the river of misery where you're like, okay, maybe I didn't tell it as well. Maybe I could tell it better. And then you figure out which point you can kind of dive a bit deeper into the action from this is, write down your story, really look at why you made your decisions, what were the emotions that you went through? And then how do you tell that story well, and practice it, get feedback. And then like, practice it again, based on the feedback, such

Ryan McPherson 12:47
great advice for not only personal branding, and making stories that matter. And that will help to advance your brand, but also for the stage too. And for the podcast. And for these other methods that we talk about. You also mentioned the ideal lessons learned.

Suzanne Chadwick 13:04
Yeah, I think that sometimes business owners and people in general, we don't want to show our vulnerabilities too much. We don't want to tell people that we failed that we didn't do it very well, because that can be embarrassing sometimes. And we've all heard the saying, you know share the scar, not the scab, like once you've really processed the learning, and you can look back on it. And you can say that, that was not, that was a hard time. But I know what I can share from it. I think that lessons learnt really increase your credibility and your relatability. And the reason is that if you failed, and now I can see that you succeeded at this particular thing, then I can see myself in you. So I'm failing at this now. But if you've succeeded, and you're telling me how you succeeded and the lessons you learned from the failure, then you now give me hope. And we want to follow people who have been where we've been before, and they've now try out. So I'm going to follow you because you're going to teach me how you went from the failure that I'm in to the triumph that you're experiencing now. And that's why we love the hero's journey. That's why all movies are based on the hero's journey. When we talk about lessons learned. I think that that is a really essential part of our connection to our audience as well. I sometimes do on my podcast, the fail files, where I'm like, I totally failed. Let me tell you a time where I really sucked. It was bad. I thought it was gonna be great. And you know, I lost $30,000 or I, you know, bombed on the stage or I forgot what I was gonna say or whatever it is. Yeah. I think that one way to be able to look at a lot of the things that we're talking about is what do I want to be known for? And then what are the stories that I can tell within that So for example, if I want to be known for somebody that helps you to become more profitable and manage your money, let me tell you all the times, I've managed my money really badly, and all of the problems that I had and the money I lost and the failures, and then let me tell you about how I got out of it. And I think that's a much more interesting story, then, let me tell you about all the amazing things that I've done and how I've never failed. And I'm always great. Like, nobody. Nobody wants to hear that all the time. So I think it's important to think about what have been really big lessons in your life, and how can you share that in relation to whatever it is you're trying to communicate to your audience.

Ryan McPherson 15:41
This idea of perfection, I think sometimes holds people back. Right. So you're speaking directly to one of those things that I think that a lot of people in, especially with posting on social media struggle with, which is imposter syndrome.

Suzanne Chadwick 15:54
Yeah, absolutely. Imposter syndrome is such an interesting one. And I'll tell you why. Because I actually think that impostor syndrome can be healthy. All it's telling me is that maybe there's something new I need to learn as something new, I want to learn when somebody gets on stage, it's all about the thought. So your body is going to have a reaction your body, you're going to feel the nervous energy, you're going to have the adrenaline and your thought is either going to be I'm totally going to bomb I'm so nervous, this is going to be awful. Or your thought is this is so exciting. I this is going to be amazing. Like I've got the nervous energy going, I'm gonna bring it on the stage, the reaction in our body is the same. But the thoughts are two different things. And I think impostor syndrome is, is the same as this. So what happens is that I get into a situation and my feeling in my body is, oh, my gosh, like, Can I do this? I don't know if I can do this. Yeah. What if I get found out is the thought that we have, I would encourage you when it comes to impostor syndrome and your inner situation, number one, I don't need to know everything. Like, I'm not here to be an expert. I'm here to be a contributor. Somebody said that a long time ago, and it's never left me. And also, if I get into a situation where I feel like I don't know enough, there's two things. Number one, I know enough to be here. And I think it's a self belief element. And I think it's a self confidence element as well. If I don't, that's okay. Because I might learn something here as well. So I think that when we look at impostor syndrome, there's been so much negativity around it. And I would really love to flip that script. And say, when I feel like an imposter, why do I feel like an impostor? Is it true? Because sometimes even people who are the most experienced experts in their field experienced impostor syndrome. So we have to ask ourselves, is this thought I'm having actually true? If somebody says to me, Suze, can you coach women who do consulting to build personal brands? And I think, oh, I don't know who can I will, if I ask myself, have I done it? Yes. Do I have clients that have had good experiences? Yes. So then I have to tell my brain, yes, Suze, you can do this, you don't need to have impostor syndrome. And if there's anything you don't know, you can learn along the way. We don't need to be experts all the time. So those are my thoughts around impostor syndrome. I'm a big one for flipping the script and understanding that we get to choose the thoughts we have. And we get to tell our brain what we are experiencing in the moment. And whether it's positive or negative.

Ryan McPherson 18:37
It's such a powerful thing to be able to help students who might be struggling or your clients who might be struggling to overcome those kinds of things. You also mentioned testimonials and client stories, right? Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick 18:51
for sure. And I feel like I say this on tick tock all the time. I love Tiktok. But I think that people who share stories where they might share how they've helped a client to achieve a certain goal, this was the problem that either you might be experiencing, you know, if you're experiencing the fact that you're not able to attract clients the way that you want, I had a client and this is what she was experiencing, and this is what happened. And then once we tweaked this one thing, she was able to achieve this goal or this outcome, we sometimes miss the opportunity to share our clients stories, obviously, without naming them if that's not something that you need to be doing, but just showcasing how you help your clients, what their results were, how they felt, in the moment, the emotion that they went through the aha moment. I feel like there's a common thing here, either with our origin stories or with the lessons learned. It's what were we experiencing? What was the aha moment? How did we feel about it and then what happened and I feel like you can do that with your origin story with your lessons, learn with your clients stories. If you follow that format, there and it can really help people to be like, Yes, I'm experiencing that. And so if I'm experiencing that, and you've helped clients to achieve that, then you're probably somebody that I should be following or checking out or listening more to mixing that in, I think is something that is really worth doing. And something I love to teach clients is what I call story selling, which you've probably heard as well, I call it the drive by offer story selling, where I might say something like, so I was working with a client, this was the problem. And then once we worked together, and they had the aha moment, she was able to achieve this goal, which is something that I teach my clients in this product that I have, and then I keep going, yes. So all in one, I've sort of told you who I am, what I do the problem I solve the results my client gets and where you can work with me, and I've done it in a very non salesy non kinda of, by my feeling kind of way, once again, practicing and perfecting that not perfecting it, making it better, but getting comfortable with it can really help you to demonstrate your authority. That

Ryan McPherson 21:09
kind of thinking is going to help so many people we think like heart head hands, how do I help? How do I tell this story without being salesy? I think storytelling is one of the best ways in because we tend to get in our own heads sometimes whenever people are coming at us, but with a story, we're really lowering our defense shields and or being more receptive. And just being more authentic human beings. You're just two humans connecting to actually solve a problem. Right? Yeah. And

Suzanne Chadwick 21:36
I mean, as you would know, we remember story more than anything else. Yeah. So I could hit you with facts and figures, and it'll be interesting, etc. But I think that when we tell a story, that's what people remember. That's what they connect to. And that's what is actually very persuasive. When we tell stories well, and I think that there are certain people in the world even for me, I love listening to Elizabeth Gilbert, or Brene Brown or Shonda Rhimes. I'm just like, just like hours for hours, just keep talking to me, when you can really start to enjoy the process of learning to tell great stories. The benefit is is that people love to listen to you.

Ryan McPherson 22:19
We're programmed for story, right? That is so true. And it's fun. And once we have our stories, and we have our different kinds of stories, and we're all ready to get out there, and oh, wait a second, I have all these other things to do. And I know I need to post on every social media platform at least 20 times a day. And there's so much advice out there that I think is probably bad advice right about having to post everywhere all the time, and be omnipresent on all channels. Can you speak a little bit about your philosophy, and how you help clients to have a system that works for them?

Suzanne Chadwick 22:54
Yeah, and I think the podcast is an amazing way to do that. Even now, were trying to get more out of the podcast, because that's my evergreen, like my core evergreen piece of content, I do a lot of podcast episodes, I think we're up to episode 341, or something like that. If you can create high value content that can then be repurposed in lots of different ways, then that's obviously going to be a time saver, it means that there's consistency and what you're saying and where people are seeing you. And then it's really up to you where you want to use them. If you're a solo, if it's just you, and maybe a VA or something like that, then it's just about being smart with where you think your audience is and posting there. So for example, I've been on Instagram forever. I love it. It's where I connect with my community. It's where I have lots of conversations, LinkedIn, as an ex recruiter, I have like PTSD from LinkedIn, because I had to be on it every single day. So as a business owner, now it's probably not my favorite place to be. But I do know, it's very powerful. I love Tik Tok. And then obviously, we've got the podcast for my VA, I create the podcast, and then she creates the videos and some of the content from it. And then she helps me post I just think you've got to think about where is my ideal client? Where do I want to be and kind of dominate or be very strong on that platform? And then how do I do it in a sustainable way, because you don't want to be spending all of your time on those things. But I also would say, get like squeeze as much juice out of what you do create as possible. So even now, you know I say to my VA, like go back on old world blog posts, grab content from their methods, models, structures, tips that I've shared before. And then let's like keep creating so that we just got such a huge bank just valuing what you've got I think is an important thing. I think we're always like, I've got to create something new, I've got to create something new. I'm like, Well, do you though, you've probably got quite a lot that you can be continuing to share.

Ryan McPherson 25:12
I'm really happy to hear that because I know that's gonna take some weight off the shoulders of a lot of people who might be listening. Do you have any other advice for posting this kind of content? Can you talk us through that process that you use for your own content and maybe sound advice that you can give to your clients? Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick 25:29
I think there's two things that I would say to you. The first one is, when you are building a personal brand, depending on what area you're in, I'm a really big one for thought leadership. So what are the concepts that you've learned or created, that are unique to you, and continuing to reiterate them. So for me, you know, I talk about my amplify method, which is around personal branding, I talk about the, you know, revenue generation roadmap for one of my programs, or I talk about the seven pillars of thought leadership. And so I think when it comes to your content, really looking at how you package it in a way that is memorable and recognizable, is something that is worth doing, because then it kind of organizes your thought leadership and organizes what you want to be known for in a way that's really digestible for your audience. And then if you continue to refer back to it, you can obviously pull it apart. Like I said, Before, you don't always share everything in the kitchen sink, you might just share one element of it, but then you refer back to that method or the model or the thought leadership that you've created. So that's one thing really think about how am I creating messaging assets that helped me to become known that I can break down refer back to continue to share, it's like Simon Sinek start with why I love Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic. There's those those sorts of books where you can always refer back to them, and they're known for that. So I try and do that in my content to build my personal brand. The second thing that I would say is to really look at what's happening at the moment. So people say to me, I don't know what to share. I'm like, I shared this more some morning on my stories, a concept that came from a conversation with a group of clients yesterday, and then I kind of built it out. So when I am in content creation mode, number one, I always block out usually 830 to 930, every single morning in my diary for content creation. And I might only use 15 minutes of that, or 20 minutes of that, where I might create some stories and a reel, etc. But it's a habit. And when it becomes a habit, it becomes so much easier. Because I think when people are like, how do I become consistent, I don't know how to be consistent, or I don't know what to create. I'm like, okay, block some time out, start to learn what it is that you can create. For me, I'm always referring to conversations I had last week, or a problem that a client is having right now. Like literally contents just falling into my lap through the conversations that I'm having. I might go tomorrow and talk about the fact that I was on a podcast, and we talked about storytelling. And do you really think that you've mastered storytelling, let's talk about it. So I'm not trying to find content. Content is something I already have. It's a story I already have available to me. And it's just communicating it. And I think sometimes we overcomplicate content, I'm like, Just tell a story about something that's relevant to you and your audience that you think could be helpful. That's it. Once again, it's kind of the thought that we have about it. And let's not make it harder than it needs to be.

Ryan McPherson 28:44
You just gave so many reasons for people to look you up on their favorite platform of choice and find you. And we will be sure to get that information from you before this is over. But you also said something about seven pillars of thought leadership, and I went, that is great for an audience that's interested in personal branding to better understand this is

Suzanne Chadwick 29:05
something that I created years ago, and I go back to it all the time. So I'll give you the seven pillars, and we can touch on each of them. So the first pillar is your beliefs. So what are your core beliefs? What is it that you're like? What's the hill that you're willing to die? Is what is the thing that I say? So my belief is that you need to build a personal brand in order to stand out in the market. I have other beliefs as well around how I grew up and my parents and you know, maybe religion or politics is such a you decide what goes into your belief box and what stays out of it. It's totally up to you. But you've got to remember that we connect with people based on beliefs, common beliefs as well. The second thing is collective research. That is what I learned from Brene Brown or Simon Sinek or whoever else that I love to listen to. Marty Neumeier is the godfather of branding. So I love his books, the brand flip and the brand gap and I talk about that a lot. What that does is that it allows my audience to know that I'm not really insular in my thinking, but that I've looked at other people and what they think their research people who have been around for a long time. And sometimes it's stuff that I that I agree with and stuff I don't agree with. And I think that's important as well. Yeah, it's not always about what I think and what you need to believe. But it's about sharing interesting information that's relevant to you and your audience that could cover different aspects or different thinking around it. Your third pillar is your wife experiences. So I think this is really great with with stories as well, where I might have a particular thing that I want to share with you around, you know, like I said, money management. And so now I'm going to share some life experiences with you that could help if we talk about let's talk about money management for a second, then we could say my beliefs around money, and the fact that my parents told me that money doesn't grow on trees, and the fact that I grew up in a home where we didn't always have a lot of things. And so what's my beliefs around that? What's my collective research around what other people say about money? What's my life experiences around money, even when I was in my 20s, and when I was growing up, my language lexicon is another part of my thought leadership. And this is language that you become known for. It could be things that you put together, it could be things that you make up, sometimes we make up words that we become known for Marie folios was everything's figure out trouble. That's not actually a real word. But it's something that is part of her personal brand. My clients love that I talk about procrastinate faffing, I'm like, stop procrastinate, branding, stop procrastinate. faffing we need to get on with it. So that's become part of my brand language lexicon, your isms as well. What are the things that you talk about all the time, that just become part of what it is that you you're building and creating and sharing? And then the last two are your assets and your platforms? What are the assets that you're building and that you're known for it. And so for example, Amy Porterfield could be digital course Academy. That's one of her assets. It's part of her thought leadership. It's a way that she's monetized it. And it's part of her brand. That's what she's known for the platforms that they dominate, and they are on and you know, that you can find them that it's really interesting. She's big on Instagram, but she's not really on tick tock or YouTube, or even LinkedIn. And so it's also what is the platform that you're using to share your thought leadership. So those are the seven pillars, that if you were to dive deep into them, and really work out what it is that you want each of those to be? And the way that you can do it, you could even say, like I did at the beginning, if I take this through the money content theme, if I take it through the personal brand, content theme, if I take it through the mindset content theme, then I would have different things that I would talk about in each of that. What's my beliefs around mindset? What is my collective research around mindset? What's my life experiences around mindset, that's something that you can do with the different topics that you talk about your content pillars, your content, themes, the things you want to be known for, take us through the seven pillars, and see what comes out such

Ryan McPherson 33:21
a powerful framework for people who want to get better at this, where do they struggle? Where do your clients hit walls here, because I imagine there are a lot of opportunities for stumbling or hitting walls. Even with such a great roadmap,

Suzanne Chadwick 33:36
I think going back to people don't see the value in what they already do and what they already have. So if I say to somebody, like what are your life experiences around this particular topic, then they'll be like, I don't know. And I really have to dig. Like, it's like pulling teeth sometimes, right? Well, what happened at this stage in your life? Or what's a memory? Like if you sit and think about it? What's a memory that you have about that particular topic? What's a lesson that you learned about that particular topic? What is something that if you were standing in front of 300 of your ideal clients, and you were on a stage and you wanted to share your thinking around it? What are the things that you would say? So I have a lot of questions that I ask clients, because I think a lot of times they get stuck in that? Oh, no. Like, I wouldn't have a clue what that is. And I think it's only when we take the time to ask ourselves the questions, dig back into the recesses of our mind and take a look at what were the books that really influenced you because then that becomes collective research. Who were the people that you listened to where you're quoting them or you're taking what they've shared and you're and you're incorporating it into how you teach clients Brooke Castillo from the Life Coaching school. I love her model. I always talk about the model, but I learned that from her it's really taking the time for us to do gained a bit and I think that show my he arrived. But I think that we're in at a time where everything moves so fast. And we're just in this role, culture that sometimes you've got to stop. And you've got to dig a bit deeper into why you think what you think where those beliefs and stories have come from how you've filtered them, which becomes your language lexicon and your isms, how you are monetizing it through the assets. So how are you teaching what it is that you believe you've experienced? You've learnt? And then where are you sharing that? So I think that if you look at it in that way, and once again, you stop, you spend the time you go deep, then you'll figure them out. But that's where people I think, missed the mark. They don't stop and spend the time.

Ryan McPherson 35:53
It seems like the there's an advantage there to taking a breath. Whenever you take a breath and you assess I imagine you think about things that you wouldn't necessarily think about right? You're able to gain insights to where you spent your time wisely or maybe unwisely.