Suzanne Chadwick
Welcome to the brand builders lab podcast. I'm your host Chadwick certified business and mindset coach, author and speaker each week we'll be talking about simple but powerful business and mindset strategies that will help you build a lean, clean and profitable business so you can learn to get out of your own way and pay yourself more more. Forget average, it's time to level up. Hey, lovely, welcome back to the podcast are any 24 Let's go I was really excited to have this interview, conduct this interview and share this with you. I love Haley and Katie from Oh my digital. I follow them on socials where they're always giving updates on what is happening on the different platforms, things to think about. So I knew that when I wanted to talk about 2024 trends and what's coming up and things that we need to know, when it comes to the socials fear and marketing that I wanted to have them on the podcast actually had them on the podcast back in 2021, where they did a similar episode. So maybe we'll just make it like an annual thing where they will be my January guests to let you know what's going on. So this is such a juicy episode, there is so much goodness, so many things to be aware of to take note of so that you can utilize the tools that you've got, but also have a strategy that works. So I'm very excited to share this episode with you. As I'm releasing this I think that I'm still on holiday maybe. But listen, if you do not know Haley and Katie and oh my digital, they help disruptors and purpose driven businesses standout make an impact and profit with great digital marketing, backed by a cheer squad of a besties. They've got over 14 years combined marketing experience. And they mix book smarts with street smarts. For a brand experience that's totally fetch. So good. We talk about Instagram, tick tock LinkedIn overarching marketing strategies, and the things that you need to know. So I know that you're gonna love this episode. Now before we dive in, I just want to remind you that if you are looking for support to build your personal brand, if you're a coach, consultant, you've got a service based business, maybe an agency, and you're looking for a mastermind for 2024 For the next 12 months, then make sure you head over to Suzanne chadwick.com forward slash amplify and come and join us in the amplify mastermind. I'm super excited for everything that we're doing this year. It's all about getting the support that you need, and having those next level conversations and an amazing community around you for a longer period of time. Yeah, where we have deeper conversations, and have really honest conversations so that you can grow your business in the way that you want. So make sure you head over there. Check it out. I would love to have a chat with you and see if it's the right thing for you. Just DM me as his Chadwick on Instagram if you've got any questions as well, but listen, without further ado, let's dive into this week's episode. Haley and Katie Oh, my digital girls, welcome back to the brand builders lab podcast.

Oh My Digital
Thank you for having us.

Thank you so excited to be here.

Suzanne Chadwick
Well, I was just saying that I think the last time was probably 2020. Maybe I will have your last episode in the show notes. But I always think of you when I'm like, Alright, I need the trends. I need to like inform my audience about what's going on in the social sphere. And because I'm always catching your updates on Did you see the latest release from Instagram? on whatever platform I'm like, well, obviously I'm gonna ask you ladies to come on the podcast and talk all things. Social 2024.

Oh My Digital
Thank you, we do definitely take pride in keeping up to date with what's going on. It's actually just like a, it's become a hobby of ours really. It's more of like a passion more than anything. So yeah, it's a bit sad. That's true.

Suzanne Chadwick
Sad, we love it because none of us can keep up with what is going on. There's like changes and updates and shifts and all the rest of it. So I would love to know, what has 2023 been like for you. How have you found it? What have you maybe seen as some of the big shifts or moments in 2023?

Oh My Digital
I think the biggest thing I would say even just on a macro level is that it's been a year of a lot of unpredictability. And I know we're all really tired of hearing that but even just the con conversations we've been having with clients. You know, I know every industry is different, but we've really been feeling it, even across retail and across professional services as well. You know, 2020 felt easy compared to 2023. I think for a lot of us like the conversations we've been having. So it's definitely been a year where I think it may be like snuck up on us a little bit how difficult it might have been, I think we were all expecting it to be, you know, things quite back to normal. Now, you know, things are going to be a bit more consistent, predictable, and it just kind of smacked us in the face. And we definitely felt that we feel like we've definitely come out on top, but at the end of the year, but it was really I know, for us personally, a big year of really reassessing what we're doing, which, you know, you should always do sort of on an annual basis, but really having to, you know, step back, look at what you're doing, make some tweaks, really get back in touch with your audience and what they're wanting from you. Because that is just always sort of shifting and changing. And I feel like it's shifted a lot as well this year. So

Suzanne Chadwick
I was just about to ask you like we that. I feel like, I kind of love 2020 through 2022. In a bit of a I don't know even what we're about mess. Yeah. dumpster fire. But, yeah, but now this year, like what was it about kind of getting back in touch with your audience? Do you? I think that there was a massive marketing shift this year. And I'm like, was I just asleep in 2022? And I missed it. And I'm only just kind of realizing it this year, like, what did you see or feel as far as the way people are marketing and the things that happened in 2023?

Oh My Digital
Yeah, I think there's been a really big shift in terms of what people expect from brands, I think that in 2020, and 2020, you know, through that, that whole period of 2022 period, we started to see consumers expect more from brands, but they weren't quite sure how, you know, they wanted them to show up at the time, it was in the form of customer service, because obviously, processes systems, you know, the way that customer service was, you know, had to be done had to change because the world was changing, you weren't able to just necessarily work, walk into a shop and get face to face contact. So a lot of businesses had to adapt and adjust to that. I think that that a lot of consumers have raised their standards as to what they expect from brands. And with that has come like a new age of expecting more from businesses. And I think that's sort of maybe what has come back and like what's sort of happening now is that, that level of standard is just continuously, you know, getting higher and higher. And I think too, with the younger generations coming through as well, with, you know, Gen Z and even like the younger ones, again, they are much more mindful consumers. And they have, you know, much more thought, thoughtful consumer behavior, as well into, like buying habits and things like that, as well. So they demand more from their parents. So they're kind of they, you know, are looking to purchase more from, you know, ethically sustainable brands or from brands that actually live out their values. So I think a lot has changed from even that just those people, you know, that that generation have kind of aged up a little bit, and they've had to grow up quite quickly. Because, you know, their, their conditions have changed as well. But I think there's been like a lot of a lot of change. And yeah, I guess everyone's had to really as businesses have had to change and adapt. And it we've seen a lot of businesses closing down this year, which has been really sad and really, really devastating to see, because they haven't been able to keep up with the demand, which is really, really sad.

Suzanne Chadwick
So a couple of things about as a parent, I'm like, what the actual is going on. I've got a 13 year old and they are all obsessed with Mecca. They like I'm like, I go to Sephora, they're like, yeah, no, Sephora doesn't have the brands. And I'm just like, what's going on, and they're like, flushed with cash. And, like me waiting. I don't give my kids a lot of pocket money, but like, presence and like the amount of money that's flowing through a younger Gen. I'm like, I don't even think I had five bucks when I was 13. But it's just really

Oh My Digital
like they're really conscious that their buying habits and they're so much more than what we were we might have made a lot of smaller purchases when we were that age, whereas they're holding on to their money and choosing to invest in brands that they love or choosing to you know, they're really like thinking everything through. It's a really different mindset. Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
yeah. And I feel like brand, like brands as a whole. They're so much more conscious of it, like my daughter reels of brands. And I'm like, I have no idea who you're talking about. And it's just yeah, it's just very interesting to watch. to their buying habits as well, for businesses that when brands that went out of business, what do you think it was, from your perspective? That where did they stumble, what happened?

Oh My Digital
Like, I think I mean, of course, there's so many factors that go into it, I feel like the one I really noticed is just that we're all so overwhelmed and tired. And like Haley said, as well, like being much more conscious of what we're buying, I just feel like it's very much less is more now for consumers. Like, we're not spending wheeling, you know, especially with the cost of living as well, like, that already makes it harder. But there just isn't room for lackluster brands anymore. Like if that you know, ever was in the past. But now in particular, you just can't compete unless you're really offering something that people really need, that's really solving a problem that's really valuable. And that can stand out. And that's absolutely not to discourage anyone that's starting their business, but just really make sure that you have that important mission. And those values that actually, you know, make what you're doing really important to the world. And it's gonna work out if you're really offering something of value. But you know, I think a lot of the time, there's a lot of businesses where they're in a really saturated market, you're not doing anything particularly different. And it's just going to be really, really difficult for you to compete in this environment more than ever, I, I feel, would you add anything to that highlight?

Yeah, so the only other thing I'd probably add to that, too, is, and we keep saying this, and I'm gonna keep saying it is that everyone keeps saying that Instagram is dead. And this is the hill that I will die on that it is not dead. It's just that people, the way people using it is probably they're still using it like it was being used in 2020. And then on adapting to how people are using it now. So again, people's behavior has changed. So how they're even using Instagram has changed. They've released a lot of information, the head of Instagram ever came out and said that people don't tag people in the comments anymore. People tend to share posts directly through the DMS, they tend to have a lot of direct message conversations. And that tends to be where people interact now. And often people don't like each other's posts, they don't comment on each other's posts anymore. And it's not a personal thing. It's just the way that people are interacting now. So they're more likely to share a post of someone that they liked than they are to actually even interact with the post. So while everyone's going my engagement down, it's all terrible. They're probably not necessarily looking at the right, the right metrics, and they're probably not updating their, you know, their call to actions, or they're not updating their strategy to be in line with what's working now. So for example, we have been using a automation tool called many chat, which encourages people to drop a comment in the comment section. And that will automatically send them whatever the call to action is, it will automatically send them all the information they could possibly need directly to their inbox. So they don't have to do another thing. So instead of going in searching through the bio, and trying to find the right link, and try to find the author that they so desperately want to snap up, but it's just way too hard to find it in amongst all the other links. It's directly being sent to them. And then they can reply if they have any other questions. So I think the way people are using Instagram is just adapt like it's shifting. And I think those people who aren't keeping up, are really struggling to find any momentum on the app. And then they're sort of saying it's dead, and it's not working for them. And and that's where a lot of those businesses are suffering because they might have it might have worked in 2020, because it was very different back then. strategies were different. You could post and get a lot of engagement, or you could post to get a bunch of sales, but it's just not that easy anymore. So yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
absolutely. I mean, I just thought many chats been around for ages. I mean, I remember emceeing an event years ago, and we were talking about Mani chat, then I think it was like 2019 2020. And so but I really feel like I saw it come into full effect this year, especially on Instagram, I follow. Like I see Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield in that and I see them using it a lot. So I've definitely seen the rise of it. As far as I feel like that was good news for my listeners, because a lot of my community like nothing is happening on Instagram anymore. Nobody like not there's no engagement is worse. And so when we think about content moving forward, obviously things like so many chat. Great, what else what other because you were saying looking at you know, the right analytics and, and still getting, you know, good results out of Instagram. What are some of the strategies or things that we need to start doing and thinking about?

Oh My Digital
Yeah, I definitely think prioritizing DMS a lot more like we talked to so many businesses and they're like, Oh, I post and I put all this effort into my posts and then no one engages with me and I'm like, but how much time is Use spending engaging with other people. I know we talk about it all the time. But just ask yourself, whether you are really like putting in what you want to get out as well, because that's a huge thing for us. You know, we're always keeping in touch with people and just genuinely wanting to have those conversations. And that's where the relationships come in. And then that's where that eventually turns into sales. And remember to actually apply to your customers in the DNS as well, like don't leave them hanging for ages. And that's a you know, another thing you can do with many chat, like just having those options there that people can just send you and get an automated reply so that they can keep moving through that buying process, even if you're not physically there. But you know, remember to reply to them have those conversations with them. Even if it's just getting on and replying to stories, you know, I say to, especially coaching clients, sometimes like if you're really struggling to post, or you don't have time, or you're overthinking it or whatever, just spend time replying to stories and connecting with people, you'll get so much more out of that. Then you might from posting more anyway.

Suzanne Chadwick
So replying with stories? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Oh My Digital
the algorithm actually prioritizes that you'll often find that when you start having a direct message conversation that that person stories will start popping up in at the top of your your list. And, and the same thing will happen to them as well. So the more you are engaging with people stories, the more and spending time direct messaging people, the more you're going to be seen, so.

Suzanne Chadwick
And Haley, I want to ask a question around that, because I think people get stuck on this is like, what do you mean by DMing? And I don't mean as in what is a DM? It's like, so somebody who hasn't started a conversation with me, I'm just gonna go start a conversation with them. Is that what I'm supposed to do? Like, what is it mean to do that?

Oh My Digital
Yeah, totally. So we always really talk about, you know, only starting a conversation if it comes from like an authentic place, and not just engaging for the sake of engaging because it's really obvious when someone's just putting up an emoji or replying something that's really generic. And they're, they're sort of just doing it to tick a box and say that they've done it for the day. So we always recommend, you know, don't just reply to a story for the sake of doing it. But if you see that somebody has uploaded something that you really resonate with, or you think that you know, you really want you want to congratulate them on whatever it is that they're launching, you think it's a really cool offer, and you want to know more about it, even if it's shared with your network, you know, little things like that. So starting a conversation from a place of genuine interest is always the best place. And if you feel like you're not, you don't have a genuine interest in whatever it is that they're sharing, then I'd recommend moving on because it's going to be quite obvious in that conversation and it will feel forced, so yeah, yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick
And uh, yeah, yeah, it does. I mean, are you doing so uh, you only ever responding like a you ever doing? Where you're the first one reaching out in the DMS to somebody that you're not in a current conversation with? So say, an old follower, people who follow you? Is there any thing around DM strategies of re engaging people who you may not be in conversations with?

Oh My Digital
What if it was relevant, but again, you know, it's not really something we overthink, we don't necessarily have like a set out, you know, checklist of what we do. But we really just use it as we would, you know, checking in with people on any other platform, to be honest. So if it was someone who se was commenting on a few of our posts, and we could tell they were really stuck with something and they might need our help, then we might reach out to them and go, Oh, by the way, you should check out this tool or whatever, it could really help you, you know, yeah, just being genuine with it. If you have something that can help them reach out if you think they might need your help in the form of some kind of service or product that you have then shot, like reach out and share it with them. There's no harm in doing that. But again, just if you already have some kind of reason to do that. But we honestly the way we use social media is it's more just it sounds cheesy, but it's more about like giving than it is about taking we don't necessarily go on there being like, Oh yeah, we're gonna get some leads, and we're gonna sell to people today. We're really just there to hang out, have a good time, meet cool people. You know, we're constantly, you know, chatting to people and going, Oh, hey, you should come along to this networking event, we're going to you really like it. Just things like that. Like it's just about creating that community and creating that network. And then when people are ready to buy from you, they will come to you because they'll remember you or when their friend needs you. They'll mention you like that's where it comes in. So yeah, absolutely. Like if you really want to go hard with your sales, you can be a bit more strategic and a bit more structured with it. But to be honest, for us, it's just kind of something that flows organically. So I would say like get more comfortable with it by just looking at who you following. Are you actually following people that are maybe a potential customer or someone who could recommend you someone that's relevant for your industry? You know, start with my You'd be responding to stories and things like that when they're relevant to get more comfortable with it. And then you're sort of just find yourself. having those conversations I suppose is. Yeah, yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah. So good. Okay, awesome. So was there anything else in 2023 that we need to just touch on before we move into 2024? Like, were there any, were there any surges by any particular platforms, anything that kind of rose to the top?

Oh My Digital
I feel like you probably agree, Katie. But I feel like that with all the rise of AI and chat GPT, that eat brought about a real shift as well, in terms of demand. And, again, customer expectations, I know that we felt it. And I don't know, we know that a lot of other of our friends who have digital products as well, felted as well, that the demand for lower ticket items, that potentially things that you could create now on chat GPT, dramatically dropped, because people can now create full marketing plans. I mean, not saying that they're any good. But you know, because they're scraping the internet for information. So you never really know where it's coming from. Whether it's coming from, you know, anyone that's actually an expert anyway. But, you know, with all of the information that's out there now, and that you've got these tools that can create it all for you, I definitely found that that she definitely shifted the space. And I think even to people were really like cost out and DIY out in 2023. Like, I feel like a lot of people were kind of, they wanted more help in terms of learning how to physically do things themselves, but they didn't want to actually have to do a lot of the learning, they were kind of a bit tired of doing all the all the work. I think they just wanted like the quick wins or the quick, you know, the quick fixes, or they wanted someone to do it for them. But that's what we kind of found in 2023, in terms of people were just, I guess, like cost out from, from that COVID period where everyone was doing what every online cause possible. And then digital products also took a bit of the dive. Yeah, with the rise of chats up. That's something that I found that I don't know, Katie, if you had anything else that you wanted to. Yeah, I

totally agree with all those things. The only other things I was going to add is just some of the metrics that we have been tracking, you know, for ourselves, and for our clients off the back of people commenting, liking less, what are some of those metrics that can sort of give you a fuller picture of your engagement, especially on Instagram. So definitely looking at things like you can actually go in and see how much reach your posts are getting. So how many people are seeing your posts, and what percentage of them are followers, and what percentage of them are people that don't follow you. You can also see the breakdown of whether those people are coming from your reels or your posts. So we find it actually changes a bit. But often you'll find, you know, say for example, on Instagram, what it looks like most of the time is that your rails content will probably get you in front of more people who don't follow you already. Which is really interesting. Whereas your posts might be seen more by people who already follow you. But then you just want to look at your followers as well and say, okay, if I'm getting in front of all these new people, are they actually following me. And if they're not, maybe you want to have a call to action in your video somewhere or in your post that's like, follow us for more content like this, etc. Another thing you can look at, it's really good is just how many shares you're getting, like Haley was saying, we don't really like tag our friends in post so much anymore, people will probably tend to share them, or even screenshot the post and send it to people, which unfortunately, we can't see. But just keeping in mind that people are doing that. So don't freak out too much. There's so much Lurker engagement that you'll never see that still going on. And your saves as well. So using that as a call to action rather than comment or like it save this post for later. And we get that a lot with anything really educational, we share that's like breaking down a topic that people want to remember. Or they want to remember it as an idea for later or they want to remember what our services are for when they are ready to work with us. So that's a really another good one that you can do, as well. And yeah, just don't forget about your lurkers because I can't tell you how many times we've got a lead this year. And they've sent to us. You know, we always ask them, Why did you come to us and they say, Oh, we've followed you for ages. And we're finally ready to work with you. And every single time those people like or they're not necessarily the ones I recognize that always comment or always DMS, but they're watching and they're following, even if they don't engage so just remember they're out there. Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
absolutely. Looking at analytics and all the the other analytics that we don't normally look at I think is so good. I do want to ask about let's Instagram always rises to the top. I do want to ask about LinkedIn and tick tock because I feel like they both for me maybe He, or in my circles had a bit of a surge this year. So what have you seen in that space actually

Oh My Digital
been really interesting with LinkedIn, it's becoming a lot more popular again, Gen Z audience because they're finding LinkedIn is a kind of a more wholesome platform where they feel safe, they don't feel like there's cyber bullying or toxicity or a lot of, you know, hate speech or things like that. And they're really, you know, sick of that on other platforms, particularly say, for example, Facebook or Twitter at the moment. So they're coming to LinkedIn as kind of a safe space where they feel comfortable. And they feel like that's how social media should feel. So that's been an interesting trend that we've seen. I've been using LinkedIn a lot more personally. And I would say, yeah, definitely use it as your own personal profile as well, like company pages are awesome, especially when you're a big organization, and you want to use it to attract talent and things like that. But for the general small business owner, like just use it for yourself, personally post from your own profile. And again, if that feels a bit scary, just start by engaging with people, you'd be surprised how much you get out of it just from leaving meaningful comments. And what I love about LinkedIn too, is you can follow like, quite relatively well known famous people, and they don't actually get that many comments on their posts. So it's not that hard to just like, leave a thoughtful meaningful comment and like be noticed by that person or get a reply. And if you do it often enough, they're going to remember you and you know, eventually check you out and connect. So there's so much opportunity on there. I love LinkedIn. Yeah, I

Suzanne Chadwick
feel like I'm sort of I'm just dipping my toe back into the LinkedIn waters a little bit. I still find it pretty boring. But like, I'm gonna like, you know, be be there.

Oh My Digital
Yeah, that's yeah, I'm probably more of a tick tock person myself. I'm definitely not quiet on the LinkedIn train. But I am completely recognize its power. I think I get like impostor syndrome every time I go on LinkedIn, and then it stops me from from posting, but I definitely feel much more comfortable on on tick tock, which is like, yeah, and the other. Though, it has been really interesting this year. I think, with the shift we've seen on tick tock this year, with more really raw and real content. And anyone, there's one there was someone said it on tick tock, and I don't remember who it was. But they made a really interesting point earlier in the year that so many Instagram famous or Instagram popular people were coming over to tick tock and talking like, everyone knew who they were, and expecting that everyone would just that that audience would just translate over. And that, you know, everyone would just off the bat want to listen to their story and their expertise, because they knew who they were. But they basically had to build a whole new audience and talk to this audience as if they didn't already know them and start building that relationship again. And I think that's been a really interesting lesson to learn throughout this year, because we have noticed that the rise of certain people who weren't that big on Instagram that have really made a big on tick tock, their personalities have kind of really come through strong, and they've been a really relatable, much more rule and not as polished version of themselves, which, obviously Instagram is, and much more like vlogging and behind the scenes and kind of storytelling content. And it's much more sort of brand brand focused and sort of even just more of the like the person behind the brand, rather than focusing on the brand as a whole which we found really interesting to watch as well. So yeah, tick tock has been really interesting to watch evolve, because it's just keep keeps changing. But yeah, I love it.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, I'm I fell into the TIC tock hole this year. And I have been trying, I'm just and my listeners already know, I'm like, I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm like, I show up, I do some videos. I'm like, maybe I don't know is that let's see what happens there. But I do love I know somebody was sort of saying like on tick tock, it feels very much like you're on FaceTime with somebody, like you're on FaceTime with a friend. It's very raw. It's kind of just like you know, hanging out and it's wherever they are and that sort of thing and and I think that that is what I do love about it. So I do find that probably a lot more interesting. I don't know I don't read a lot on Instagram. So So you know, reels with a lot of text or I don't know caption heavy or even images like carousels with a lot of content. I'm just like, no, like, Tell me. Tell me about it like and so it's been interesting to see obviously Instagram, you can now post I think is it up to 10 minutes, like the reels have now made a lot longer and No, there's three minutes. Yeah,

Oh My Digital
definite they want to but it hasn't it hasn't come out yet, but I think they I think they someone spotted them testing it. So I'd say it probably won't be long before it happened.

Suzanne Chadwick
I think I've got it. Because I took a video that I had on Tik Tok, that I think was three, four, maybe five minutes. And I just uploaded it to reels and upload it. So

Oh My Digital
at the end, because I usually upload, but it will cut up cut off.

Suzanne Chadwick
Interesting, I'll have to go and check. I feel like anyway, while have to go check. But this is interesting. Because I saw them or heard them talking about it with tick tock, is there anything because that's where I see your updates. So I'm following. Every time you're giving like an update on what's happening. I'm like, that's where I'm seeing it. Is there anything that you think like in 2024, as far as tick tock goes, for my listeners that we should be thinking about? When it comes to using it as a platform, and building like a community and brand on there?

Oh My Digital
I think the big takeaway that we've seen from what's going to come on tick tock in 2024, is just finding what makes you really unique and taking your own personal stance or your own personal, I guess, flavor on whatever it is that you're you're going to try and be known for on the app, I think that a lot of people have been doing, you know, to get ready with me and the same sort of talking style videos for quite a while now. And they're working really well. But I think it's going to get oversaturated as more and more people are trying it and getting comfortable and practicing it. So I think it's probably just going to be really important to find that what you want to be known for. And what it is that you know, works really well for you and what your audience want from you. And what you know is actually going to funnel them through to need to work with you as well. And focus on that. But the main thing I think with tick tock as well as not to sell on there. So I think more people that go in there with the purpose of trying to sell, fluffing, and those who were just going on there and talking about their audience's pain points or giving a really good story. And doing really well. Those that are giving value on the app are doing really well. And going in with a low expectation from the app as well that kind of like I said, with Instagram, no going in with you know, I'm going to drive 10 leads a month from from Tik Tok because it gives you that added pressure. And I think it comes through really clearly on the screen when you're exhausted and you're stressed. And he's showing up on camera because you feel like you have to, you know, hear all this advice that you need to film three things a day. And, you know, I think you just have to find a way to show up with like, consistent for you. And, you know, be able to give that energy that you need to show up the way authentically and the way that you want to as well and just pick that niche, pick that topic that you really want to be known for and and kind of stick to it. And I think that's probably probably my biggest tip. I don't know about you, Katie, who've got anything else you want to add to that?

Yeah, the only other thing I was going to say is, you know, don't forget that tick tock is, you know, quite a different vibe to Instagram reels. So we still do repurpose a lot of our content just to test and see what works well, and what platform. But it was really interesting when when we did our monthly report last month for our end. Our best performing tic toc was our worst performing real and our best performing real was our worst performing tic toc. And it was a difference of like 10s of 1000s of views between one and two. So even you know potentially think of, I would say a lot of tick tock content that does well it's almost more of a similar vibe to like Instagram stories in that it's very real life not overly curated, compared to Instagram reels, which can be a little bit more you know, polished and curated. So think about it like that. And the other thing too is just if you're feeling like you don't get tick tock just spend a little bit of time like that. Honestly, the easiest way like the best way you will get across it is just spending that time using it not saying you need to sit there for three hours like wasting time just scrolling, but actually following people who do well on Tik Tok and make sure you follow people that you just like don't just follow people, you know, especially if they're people maybe you connected with on Instagram, they do well there but then content might not be doing so well on Tik Tok. So actually go out, find people in your niche that are relevant for you to follow that are doing well on the app and see what they're doing. That's going to be the quickest way for you to just get a feel for what's working. And, you know, don't just go on your friends page and scroll through the people you're following, but actually go on your for you page and that recommended content as well. Because that's what's going to show you what works on the app. So I find for me, that's the easiest way to just see examples and make sure that I'm across what's working And keeping in mind, personally Yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
yeah, I definitely agree. Like I've found some people that talk about some of the stuff I talk about the very different to me. But I've kind of the videos where I really liked their style. I'm like, I could totally do that like that feels natural. To me like it's not like overproduced and the one thing that I just can't get my head around is, like videoing for a whole day, like where I am and what I'm doing and then putting it together later. I'm like, when I'm out, I'm not like the oh, I need to quickly capture that. So just finding people where they just sit and talk. And I'm just trying to understand, like, what keeps me engaged? Like, what are they doing that I really love? What are they? How are they doing it? So I'm trying to, I guess, you know, reverse engineer it a little bit. to, I guess, understand, yeah, the style that works or that I feel really engaged with, with something that I feel I could probably do. So it's just funny though. I'm just like, why is it taking me so long to get my head around this? Like, I do stories every day, I feel totally comfortable on video for should be my jam. But yeah, there is definitely a different vibe on that

Oh My Digital
whole different app. Like it's honestly just the whole note. Like I spent so much time thinking about it and trying like

Suzanne Chadwick
every video like I love your Roman Empire, Haley. Yeah, obviously,

Oh My Digital
there's my Roman figuring out Tik Tok is my Roman Empire. I will sometimes I'll message Katie, and I'll be like, if you see like three of the same video, just ignore it. Just saw sometimes I'll just like I'll even do like a slightly different like pitch or I'll do like, I'll do like a more formal, formal way of speaking versus like, a more relaxed way. And then I'll literally just test that. So like, I'm always just on there just testing different things. And I'm like, I will crack you I will whack you.

Suzanne Chadwick
By five Haley. I'm right there with him. Look, I'm gonna get this. I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna get it. I gotta make it work.

Oh My Digital
Yeah, cuz we do we have some little girl like Mega viral. And then we'll have some that'll get like 50 views or something, you know, we'll get 200 or 300 views. And I'm like, can you not can you just give me just give keep it. I don't want to go viral every time because nobody, the idea of actually going viral is not as great as it sounds, because a lot of the time, that's not the kind of people that are actually going to buy from you. But we just

Suzanne Chadwick
like to have like, you know, decent

Oh My Digital
amounts cogently. You know, just like,

Suzanne Chadwick
feel like you got something for the work. You did. Yeah.

Oh My Digital
But it's one of those things, I guess. It's just a lot of testing. And like you said, like, you've got to find what suits you because I, Katie, and I had this conversation all the time where I might try and film something a certain way, and it might take me hours. And I've just had to say to her look, I just I can't do this, like it's taking me hours, because I feel so uncomfortable and so unnatural, speaking this way, that it's just coming across like that, and are having to redo it all the time. Whereas I'm much better off with like the digital updates, which I can smash out a week's worth of videos in an hour or to because for me holding the camera and just quickly talking about the updates is much more natural to me. Then, like you said, you know, the the with the third day and watch what I do on a day, I just sit at my computer cross legged, and I'm looking at like, a click up most of my day, like nobody needs to see

Suzanne Chadwick
lots of videos of that and then put it together.

Oh My Digital
I usually like my dog up and like I play with my dog. Like nobody needs to see that. So I feel like it's just like finding out what you know what suits you and your style and what you're comfortable with and what you can do consistently like what you can do without draining the life out of yourself that still, like you said, your audience still want to watch, too. So

Suzanne Chadwick
I reckon that could go viral, though. Haley, I think that there be so many people just going yes, that's exactly what my day looks like. I love it. All right, cool. So what makes me well, what else do we need to be thinking about when it comes to our strategy, social media or the plan or the platforms? Not all, but I guess how are you thinking about it? As far as you know, I feel like Instagram, Tik Tok and LinkedIn are probably three that I'm looking at for sure. How are you planning for yourselves and for your clients as far as what's coming in? 2024?

Oh My Digital
Yeah, there's probably two main high level things that I would say just with any social media platform, is just don't forget that at the end of the day, like there's so much that you can do on the app, like with your engagement strategy with DMS with what you're posting, and that's awesome. But the biggest thing that's going to impact your growth and your results is actually what you're doing offline. So how amazing is your product? How amazing is your service? What events are you going to? What events are you speaking at? What podcasts are you showing up on a You're in the news. Those are the things that are actually yeah. Trying

Suzanne Chadwick
to get in the news Qaeda. Yeah,

Oh My Digital
these are the things and it doesn't have to be, you know, A Current Affair or anything crazy. But you know, getting in local media, whatever it is, the more relevant you are offline, the more relevant, you're going to be online as well. So don't underestimate the power of that with your growth, that's something that's going to make a really big difference for you, the more collaborations you can do, etc. That's all something that's going to make a really big impact. Because at the end of the day, if you look at any brand, or public figure or individual that has a big social media following, yes, sometimes it is purely just from what they're doing online, but that is rare. It's like a very special accounts that sort of do that. And it takes it's a full time plus a job. So if you're, you know, a small business owner, or even a marketing manager, maybe listening to this, just remember, like, if your brand is relevant offline, and you're doing cool stuff, that's all going to help your social media growth as well. So don't underestimate that too. And I think the other thing I would say is, you know, whatever platforms you're doing, we always say, don't rely on just one, you know, less is more, you don't have to be everywhere, you can just focus on, you know, those two or three that actually relevant to your audience, that suit your style of content that you know, you're going to be comfortable making and showing up. And that your audience actually wants to see from you, as long as yours kind of spread across a couple of areas. So if God forbid, something happened to one of them, you have a backup there. And just remember that it's only part of your marketing strategy, too. So you always need a way to drive people off of their, onto your website onto your email list, even if it's just getting them to your DNS to click on a link or something like that. It's really important. But yeah, I think for us to even just as an agency, a big part of it is we're always trying to keep our clients really involved with their content. So even if you do have someone that's taking it off your plate and doing it for you still make sure that you're you know, really partnering, you're giving them that information and that insight that they need that from your customers giving them that feedback, all of that goodness, we're sort of really pushing a lot more regular, like doing feedback surveys and things like that, to really get those insights from our customers customers so that we can keep all of that in mind with the content we're creating. And yeah, just remember, like, the more you can show up as well on behalf of your brand, or even get your team to show up and really be a face of the brand. That's something that's always worked really well. But it is going to be still be important. And I think Caleb, you shared a really good point around UGC the other day and how that's changed a little bit. Did you want to share that too? Yeah. So

we saw a big rise of UGC, which is user generated content. At the beginning of this year, I feel where, you know, having other people review products and services, and give like an authentic review is so popular. But it's so interesting. We've almost seen like a whole we know that the influence or the rise of the influencer has been on the decline. For some time, we know that people don't really necessarily trust influencers anymore. And I feel like UGC is almost going down the same path. I think we found personally that a lot of social media managers decided to call it quits and decide to be UGC creators instead, which is really interesting. And I think with that, I think because you are, we're seeing it everywhere. People were losing that trust in it as well. And I think particularly for brands, unless you have a really fantastic product, or you have a really well known product or service that really out shines. You know, like its competitors, or even just what it's what the actual messaging is. To stand out on tick tock, you really need to have a single face of the brand or really well known people behind the brand because people want to connect with people on tick tock. So if you're using user generated content on tick tock, it doesn't tend to connect as well. And people don't I mean, it works well for the ads. Absolutely. The ads are fantastic. They're another whole beast in itself, because the amount of times I've seen it I've watched an entire Tiktok ad before I realized I was watching an ad is incredible. But I think in terms of how it works organically is very different. So I think how people know that they're kind of being sold to a little bit more now. And then feeling less likely to trust brands that are using a third party review because they do feel like they're less because they're paying for it. So I guess if you're using it authentically, if you're Capturing reviews from customers. And you can try and get that authentically, then of course, that's going to be, you know, always going to shine through. But I think with the user generated content, what makes it so brilliant is when it's not polished, when it's obvious that it's from someone who's tried the product, love the product loves the service, whatever it is, that's when they work really well. But I think those ones that are just so perfect, that it's obvious that it isn't a real customers review. They're much better off kept as a form of, you know, like assets for the actual brand that can be used in professional sense, whether they're used as ads, and you know, that kind of thing. I think they're better off used in that context.

So yeah,

I think that's another really interesting shift that we've seen this year as well. And, you know, I

would sort of say, with the face of your brand, like, you can get creative with that, too. So like, look at Duolingo, right, they don't see you doing that, but they have the owl costume, like you could have a mascot or scrub Daddy has their giant sponge, like their product as a costume that they wear and film videos. So you can get creative with it as well. But it's just

leaving, I think, um, Red Bull as well, we were talking about the other day. So I think if you've got a really strong, again, we're on a strong product that has, people tend to be selling the lifestyle rather than the product or service itself now. So in the case of Red Bull, you kind of recognize the product because you recognize the scene, you recognize the situation, the lifestyle, so you associate that brand with that with that lifestyle. So I think if you've got a really unique like entertainment value, or you've got a really unique lifestyle proposition that you can show that transformation that people are getting from your brand, that like Katie said, you don't necessarily need to have someone that's the face that yeah, you can sort of rely on its other aspects as well. So yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
I mean, obviously, like when I think about that, I think of Brittany Saunders from faith, the label, like she's an amazing example of a founder, who's just like creates a lot of content about random stuff. Also related to the, you know, the brand as well, but where her popularity has really, I guess, skyrocketed the brand and from a retail perspective as well. So she's always a really interesting one and also tbh. Cosmetics, I saw her speak at an event here in Melbourne, I'd never heard of the brand before. And they in the goodie bag they gave us like, it's like spot patches. My daughter is now obsessed with them. So when our customers have the brand, but also I've then obviously go and check them out on socials. And she's been very good as well, of creating content that, you know, is but isn't product related. I just I find it very, I find people very creative. I'm just like, that's very smart the way that they do that. But but so yeah, I just think it's it is about getting creative, isn't it? I think sometimes it's hard for people to think about, well, what am I going to talk about when I'm trying to market when it's not my product? Yeah.

Oh My Digital
100%. So I think like, I guess examples of where you can sort of do that as like as Britney Saunderson. She shows up in all the videos wearing the fake clothing, so she's always wearing so in the comments, people will be like, Oh, my God, what's the one of those jeans or what's that? So she's not promoting her product at all. But because she's wearing it, people want to know where it is. And it would be the same as like, you know, they get ready with me, they're telling a really juicy story about their dating life or whatever it might be. But they're using products, and then they're probably getting paid a tidy sum from those brands to use those products. But again, they're not selling the products and in the comments, or, you know, they might have a link in their bio that links all the products that they're using. So I guess in the way that brands could potentially use that, for themselves is again thinking of creative ways to showcase what makes their business so special without talking about their visit. Yeah, it's funny, it's hard to without like an exact example. But yeah, I think that's that's kind of the trick with tick tock is is selling without selling.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, but also, I mean, I follow Alex cell, who is a very young girl, but I think the really interesting thing is that she says some pretty dumb things sometimes but she totally owns it. She is very gorgeous and kind of just out of university and all the rest of it, but deals with a lot of acne and has been very like open about that she'd posted a video the other day she got like 6.1 million followers video the other day that's like nothing on social media is real. Like just so you know, I wear makeup and then I bought a beauty filter on like, this is what my skin looks like really. And I just think that you know, like you were talking about before. The younger generations are just quite transparent, I'm not gonna say very I don't know how transparent they are. But I think that a lot of people are a lot Rohrer a lot more real. And I think that there's, I don't know, there's an element of respect there. Because you kind of like, you know, that's not beautiful, and it's not filtered. And it's not, you know, always put together. And it just kind of makes you kind of feel like they are being authentic. And so I think it's just interesting to see the different types of creators and brands and what they're doing. And bringing that fun authenticity to, to what it is that they're creating, which does I think, build trust and help to build their brand, in just a better light.

Oh My Digital
Yeah, and I think such a big part of it, too, is it probably just stems from like, people are holding brands, so accountable. Now, like Haley was saying earlier. So you know, if you're not telling the whole story, like people will be very quick to rip you down in the comments, or try to expose what you're really doing or that it's fake or whatever. So you kind of have to really get ahead of it. And there's Yeah, no room for smoke and mirrors or being dishonest about anything, because consumers will will really call it out. So that's a big reason to, yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick
so good. Anything else that we need to be thinking about anything else that we need to be planning for? So we've sort of talked about a couple of the different platforms, obviously having like your offline marketing strategy, which I'm like, all in on in 22, I'm like back to events back to speaking back to creating more community. And I think that that's like my word for next year is community, and just what in all of our strategies and everything that we do, how are we putting the community at the center of what it is that we were doing, because I feel like that's where the business started. And we kind of lost that, over COVID, and all the rest of it. So coming back to that, is there anything else we need to be thinking about?

Oh My Digital
I think email marketing is still just as important as it is have ever been. But I think you have to work a lot harder now to get people email addresses. So they are basically it's like currency now because they are getting absolutely spammed, you have to work a lot harder for that email address. And I think that unless you've got a really good offer, or you've got a really good lead magnet, something that's really hot that they are going to want to sign up for your newsletter, or your you know, your email list, you're not going to be able to get people to move over to your email list. And we have always talked about this, and it's never gonna change, but you really should be moving people over to that platform that you that you are in, because, you know, as we've seen, Instagram, it's not always the most reliable. And you know, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. So we will always recommend focusing on email marketing, and making sure that you've got really good workflows set up so that you are nurturing your clients, or your customers along their journey as they are ready to buy from you, or work with you. But I think also now again, bringing back to that conversation earlier about AI and chatting putty, it's, again, so easy to get information from the internet now that if you're going to be creating, you know, checklists or freebies or you know, all those little bits and pieces that people used to create now, they almost need to be like a very high value item that you're willing to give away for free, because people can get them so easily now on the internet, and they are everywhere. So it either needs to be something actionable that they can do right away, whether it's like webinar, whether it's a challenge, whether it's, you know, an audit, like a little checklist that they can do, they can take away of audit and do do themselves, it almost needs to be something that they're going to get like immediate value out of. And it's from an area of your expertise. Because otherwise, I feel like there's just too many, it's so oversaturated and they you're just another person in the inbox that they're probably going to unsubscribe or delete from. So you do need to really work for that work for that sign up a little bit harder than you used to have to. So that's probably my Katie's the email marketing thing.

So she might have more to add to that. But that's probably my other observation.

Yeah, no, I fully agree with all that. And the other thing I would add is, you know, don't sleep on things like like many chat we were talking about before, but also SMS marketing alongside your email marketing is probably where you'll sort of get the open rates and engagement that you might have got from emails, you know, 10 or so years ago, because a lot of brands just still aren't using it yet. So definitely look into those things as well. If you feel like your audience would find those valuable and give those a try to two really big more just things happening in the digital marketing space next year. People should definitely be aware of is that in February, we posted about this up the other day, so there's a post on our Instagram and that you can go and find. But basically, there will be new sender requirements coming through for Gmail and Yahoo in February 2024, which means you need to do a thing called demark DMA RC, so you can Google that. But basically, it's just like a authentication step, so that you can continue sending emails to those gmail or yahoo inboxes. And if you don't do it, you're going to be much more likely to go to spam, all your emails won't get through. So that is a really important thing I would be checking out and just making sure you actioned it, we're going to be organizing it for all of our email marketing clients, so they don't have to worry about it. But if you do send emails, and if you're not you should be, definitely make sure that you organize that for yourself before Feb. If 2024. The other thing too, just to throw a real spanner in the works is in late 2024, Google Chrome is going to be basically blocking third party cookies in the browser. So what that means is a lot of things like, you know, Google Analytics in tracking in the past, or the Facebook pixel, or similar forms of tracking like that rely on those third party cookies to work, but they are going to be slowly being phased out. And we won't have as much access to that data as easily as we did before for things like retargeting ads or tracking who's been on our website, etc. So that's just another reason why it's extra extra extra important to be using something like email and SMS marketing, or like mini chat if you haven't already. And those channels are amazing, because you get what we call, like zero or first party data. So rather than having to rely on getting data and using data that's owned by say, Facebook, or Google or whatever, you've got this list of customers that you own with this information about them, and you can talk to them directly. And that is just like, so so invaluable in your business. So if you need a little bit more motivation to get that strategy, there you go. That's another reason you should do it. If you saw a big change, I think it was around 2021, when the iOS 14 updates came in, if you saw a big drop in your results, then this is going to be a similar thing, again, potentially worse. So just be prepared for that. Make sure using a few different channels, make sure you've got your great website, you've got email marketing strategy in place, and you'll be in a really good position to go forward. But that's probably the other thing to keep

Suzanne Chadwick
in mind. It's like just that's just the other thing. Yeah, by the way. Unbelievable. Okay, cool. I've got one more question. Have you got time? Yeah. ads. So obviously, we've talked about having our offline strategy. We talked about socials. What about our paid strategy? Like, I'm just gonna say it Haley our ads even still working?

Oh My Digital
Yes, they are absolutely working.

Suzanne Chadwick
I'm just being facetious.

Oh My Digital
Again, I say it all, I'd say not ticked off all the time. And like anyone who said, I just don't know what they're doing.

Suzanne Chadwick
So yeah, for our painted strategies,

Oh My Digital
there's probably quite a few things that have shifted for us this year that are gonna continue to be relevant. So again, like off the back of, you know, the iOS changes and things that have happened recently with, you know, platforms, particularly platforms like Facebook having less data to work with, but definitely finding broader audiences are generally working better. So don't overthink your targeting. And don't try to get too overly specific about trying to add a million different interests in when you're creating ad audiences. Sometimes it is better to go, you know, relatively broad, like just put in the things that you absolutely need. So you know, if what you're advertising is only relevant for a specific location, Gender, Age, Group, whatever, pop those things in, you can pop in a couple of interests that are really relevant, but don't go too specific. Because at the end of the day, you do have to trust the machine a little bit and just let the platform do its thing. Because honestly, a lot of the targeting actually happens behind the scenes and you don't have any control over or whatsoever, like the platform's still going to go and show your ad to the people that things are most likely to take action for you anyway. So I'd say Don't overthink that. And one thing you'll hear a lot of people talking about is like targeting with your copy and targeting with your creative. So in other words, just making sure that the words in your ad and images or video in your ad are just so relevant and directly call out your audience and just instantly make your audience go Yes, that's me. That's a problem I'm having. That's the solution I need. If you can do that in your ads. Again, the algorithm The platform you're advertising on is going to do its thing. And it's going to show your ads to the right people. So I would think of it sort of from that perspective, too, when it comes to targeting and being creative, and think a bit broader with your strategy as well. So again, like it's not necessarily always about using your ads as a place for the conversion to happen, especially if you have a kind of product or service where it's a longer sales cycle, ads might actually be more effective as part of your like the top of your market. So getting people to find you getting them onto your email list, they can be really awesome for that, you know, if you find that they're not necessarily something that's effective for you to make the sale, use them that way to expand your audience. And remember to like, there's so much I could say about this, but ads just amplify what's already happening in your business. So you know, if you've got an offer that's not already working, go and tweet that and make sure that you've got something that actually converts and that's relevant for your audience. Once that's sorted, then you're in a good position to use ads to amplify get in front of more people and sell more. So does that answer your question?

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's just adds like, just looking at next year, it's kind of like, okay, where to spend time where to spend budget, those sorts of things. With Yeah, feeling like the markets shifted a bit as well. So that's been super helpful. Thanks, ladies, really appreciate it so much. So much stuff. Anytime. Thanks

Oh My Digital
for having us. Again, we

love coming in talking here. It's so good that every topic.

Suzanne Chadwick
It's great. And I mean, we Yeah, you're in it every day. So, you know, we sort of see surface level with some things or were like testing and trying different things. But it's always good to I guess just be reminded that Instagram is not a marketing strategy. Like it's like, what do you do for marketing, I post on Instagram, there's so much more that we need to do. There's a whole cycle that needs to happen. And yeah, definitely thinking about, like, what we're doing at that top, middle and bottom of funnel is essential as well.

Oh My Digital
And if I can just like leave you with one final thought, I feel like I want to say if you're blaming any social media algorithm for your business not doing well, the problem is not the social media platform. It's your business. So sorry, I like Sorry. But that's just the truth. So yeah, don't get too caught up on that. Just go back to the bigger picture, and you'll find it much easier.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, absolutely. I just think we've got to get creative. I think we've got to stay. I think that people get stuck, or you know, just when things change, and they're like, ah, but now I've got to figure it out. I'm like, I feel like it's our business is always going to be like that. Every year, every other year, things is gonna change, market evolves, platforms evolve, your customer evolves, like it's just how it is.

Oh My Digital
I feel like we're constantly seeing in like Facebook groups, people are always like, oh, you know, my reach is dead. I think I've been shadow banned. And we're like, like, it happens every single year. And it's like, no, like, what, like, when was the last time you went and looked at your analytics and actually saw, you know, when was the last time you went and looked to see if the content that you're posting is even relevant to your audience, if it even is, you know, if it was ever popular with your audience, when was the last time you went back and had a look at what your most engaged posts were, what you're most like clicked on posts were what was the last time you actually went and dug into your Google Analytics and checked out how much traffic Instagram is actually bringing to your website versus email marketing versus every other platform? You know, like, those sorts of things that people get so like bogged down on, my hashtags aren't working, and they, they, you know, they just they forget that the picture and forget that there are more important things than hashtags. And you know, that it is always evolving. But the fundamentals always be the same. If you're looking at, you know, what has worked, trying to recreate what has already worked thinking of, you know, what your audience wants from you, and trying to produce more quality content that solves a problem for them, then you know, you're always going to perform a little bit better than last time, but it's always just, you know, testing and trying. Yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick
Good, amazing. Well, for my audience that don't know you are having come in contact with you, where can they find you? But also let us know like, what are you doing with clients? Like how can people work with you? What's your magic?

Oh My Digital
Yeah, amazing. So you can definitely find us we spend most of our time on Instagram or Tiktok. So you can just find us at our my digital or HMI digital. You can also find our website through those channels as well. We work with clients one on one and we help with everything On Facebook ads, Google ads, we can manage your social media content, email marketing, management, as well. So love helping with all those things. We work with a lot of clients every single month to manage and take all of that off their plate and help them get better results. So we're basically a plug and play marketing team ready to go, which is really cool. Otherwise, you can also work with us once off, we do our digital marketing playbook, which is a 12 month marketing strategy. Or you can start by just booking in a one on one call if you want to quickly brainstorm and put a bit of a plan of attack in place for your business and get some initial advice. So yeah, we'd love to hear from you if you needed a little help in that area. So

Suzanne Chadwick
God I love I'm obsessed with strategy sessions at the moment. I'm like booking them in left, right? And so I'm like, I need that. And I need that and I can go shopping. And I'm like, What do I need right now? Just like I just need like 90 minutes or two hours or whatever, have just like a deep dive, answer my questions get me sorted and then I'm off. So

Oh My Digital
you're best at them. And she's so good at them. People always walk away feeling like they've accomplished like way more than they ever could thought they couldn't and our like, she's so good. So amazing.

Suzanne Chadwick
So, so good. Yeah, we're all into strategy sessions right now, but so good. Well, ladies, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. I absolutely love this conversation. I think I need to go back and listen to it. Make some notes. Have some thinking time with it. But I'm excited for 2024

Oh My Digital
Yeah, I think 2023 is in the beam to be honest. And I think I can only go up from here like I feel like 2024 can only be better and I feel like it will be better for everyone.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, I was I was saying my 11 year old is like this has been so mad. I'm like yeah, I think as well. Loving it. So I'm excited. But yeah, we will share all your links in the show notes making sure that you go connect with the amazing ladies, Katie and Haley. Same thing. I hope you had your notepad and pen you can always go back and re listen to it because there are some amazing tips and such juicy things to help you to really shine in 2024. So I hope you enjoyed that episode. Make sure that you share it with your community and followers if you enjoyed it and got some value out of it. And also, be sure to subscribe and leave a review and we will see you next time on the podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai