Suzanne Chadwick
Hello, my lovely, how are you? Welcome back to another week, I hope that you are doing well. And I just want to say hey, and thanks for being here. love having you here. And also if there are any topics that you want me to cover, then let me know because you know, I love to talk all things a business, marketing branding mindset, we are here for it. So I want this to be a two way conversation send me a DM on Instagram at Suzanne Chadwick. And also, can I tell you come and hang out on ticked up, I've finally taken the leap. I've been on there for a while, but I've not really been doing too much on there. So if you are on the talk, then come over and hang. I am chatting a little bit about that today with my guest. And before I introduce you to her, I just want to let you know that this is a format that I am wanting to do more. I'm calling it fireside chats. And it is more a conversation that could go in lots of different directions. Yeah, we're talking about marketing. We're talking about manifestation. We're talking about being in a high vibration. We're talking about social media. We're talking about it all. Yeah, the ups and downs of business. So I am so excited to share this episode with you. And who am I speaking to today today I am having a fireside chat with the lovely Matty Avery who is the founder of birdcage marketing, and the Avery Academy of Marketing. She has got over 15 years of marketing experience. She's a digital marketer. She's a tick tock creator. She's a business consultant. And she has seen the ups and downs of building businesses online and she helps business owners and professional marketers future proof their marketing through funnels, marketing, psychology and mindset advice as well. So I actually have known about Maddie for a while. But I have really gotten into her content recently on tick tock and love her honest approach love the things that she shares. And the other day she shared something, she shared a video that was talking about mindset manifestation and marketing all the three things. And it just really resonated for me. And I just thought I want to have these amazing woman on the podcast to talk about all of these things that we love to talk about. Do you love to talk about it? I love to talk about it. She loves to joke about it. You love it when we talk about it. So that is what we're doing today is that we're talking about all of these things that I'm excited to share it with you it's such a juicy conversation. It's such an honest conversation as well, which is what we love, so I know that you're gonna love it. So shall I stop talking? And shall we dive in? Yeah. All right, let's do it. Maddy, welcome to the brand builders lead podcast.

Maddy Avery
Thanks for having me.

Suzanne Chadwick
My pleasure. My pleasure. Now my listeners and if my listeners follow me on Instagram, they will know I have talked about you because I'm currently slightly obsessed with your tick tock, which is how we ended up here today as well, which I kind of want to talk about in a bit too. But for those of my audience who don't know you, can you give us a little bit about you and who you are and what you do.

Maddy Avery
Yeah, sure. I am Maddie Avery. I am the founder of birdcage marketing and also Avery Academy of Marketing, which is a training school for other marketers, essentially. I have been a marketer for over 15 years now, which sounds like I can't believe I'm that old to be able to say that I've been in my industry for 15 years but here we are. And yeah, I absolutely love Tik Tok. It's it's kind of Instagram was never really my home and I felt a bit out of place and then tick tock came along and here we are loving life.

Suzanne Chadwick
Oh my gosh, we have to get into that because I kind of feel a little bit the same. But let's let's not jump ahead. Because there's so much I do want to talk to you about. But I'd love to know like how you kind of got here so 15 years, don't say you're old because I'm older than you which makes me feel super ancient. So how did you start birdcage? What's been the journey the story?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, so marketing is literally all I've ever done. So I literally started in a creative agency down in Sydney where I grew up. I was doing an internship as part of my uni degree. And then I ended up getting a job there. I did my masters part time after work was sure, I don't know how I had that energy. But I did. And I'm glad I did. I didn't learn a whole lot at uni in terms of what I'm actually doing now because I suppose my job didn't really exist back then. But yeah, basically worked in agency my whole life then relocated to regional Queensland here in Mackay for my husband's job. And then tried a few jobs in MCI. And then it wasn't really for me. And I knew I was always going to have to own my own business. And so yeah, I just did, I started, birdcage marketing up, I sold it as an agency, it was just me with different email addresses. But I always had the goal to go big. And I was going quite big last year was was really, really big year for us, we got up to 14 staff, and we record sale months after record sale months. And then I felt like I was getting exactly what I wanted. And then I decided, not what I wanted anymore. So ended up pretty much having the team at the end of last year, really trying to figure out exactly what we love to do and what we're really good at. And now we're just really honing in on that.

Suzanne Chadwick
So when you had the big team and you realize that you'd reach a goal, and now you didn't want it anymore, was there a moment was there like something that happened, where you're like, hang on a second.

Maddy Avery
Yeah. And I haven't told a lot of people this story. But last year was a really tough year for us. So we were absolutely killing it in terms of revenue and client, new clients and growing the team. And like all the outward signs of success, like we built this entire studio space that I'm in now. But there were then a couple of months that the business was going backwards in terms of revenue. And then also in terms of, I guess, morale, is probably something else. It's just the culture wasn't turning into what I wanted my workplace that I owned to be. So then yeah, it was kind of like we had had a couple of like good financial months and a couple of tougher ones. And it just became really apparent to me that I wasn't happy. And it was reflecting in everything that was happening in the types of clients, we were signing on, in a profitability. And then we had a team photo shoot, which should have been a real like, pinch me moment, like what 14 people in the team in this beautiful new studio space. And I was just actually so miserable on that day. And then, you know, I should have listened to my gut back then that things were not right. But then it did take me a couple of weeks to really just show up one day and just say I need to tear this whole thing down and start again, essentially.

Suzanne Chadwick
Wow. And when I assume you obviously went and you spoke to your husband about it as well. And what did he say?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, so I always say is like my my life coach, my business coach. He's like he actually is I've worked with a number of coaches before and I have to say he, he's really up there with some of the more expensive ones I've even worked with. But he he was just like, oh, let's let's wait until the new year, like because it was kind of November by this point. He's like, let's just wait till the New Year, see how you go. But I literally I came into work one morning, and I just could not go another day living. It's almost felt like a lie. Like I couldn't continue like that. And I just out of body experience. I had to restructure the team. But which was really, really tough. Obviously, that's never something that you want to do. But yeah, we just couldn't keep going the way we were.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah. Well, congrats on making a really tough decision. Because I think a lot of people, especially when you've got that many people on staff and all the rest of it, it would just be like, I'm sure I'll get over it. Like I'm sure it'll be fine. Like it's probably just a phase you're going through. But yeah, making the tough call. And so when it all happened and you downsize, how did you feel?

Maddy Avery
Well, it was it's obviously tough to let people go and people for people to lose their livelihoods. So that was one. That obviously was what I felt the worst about the worst about, but in terms of moving forward in the future, like it wasn't, it was a bit of a scary time because at the same time I was like I didn't know if the team that was that stayed on? Did they trust me that I had their best interests at heart as well and that I was going to get us through to this next stage. But they did they will. They've they all trusted me and we've seen it through now and even just from January this year, things have just been so in alignment, like good things just keep coming and happening and just popping out of nothing. And that just tells me if that happens, you're in alignment.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, I love that. One of the things that you kind of caught my My attention that you were talking about on tick tock, this is gonna be like back in the day when I used to say to my listeners all the time and said this one time on clubhouse I'm sure tick tock will be around a lot longer than clubhouse well, but he was talking about the mindset and the manifestation and that sort of thing. And one of the things I do love is that you're super honest. And you're very, you just say it how it is, which I very much appreciate as well. And one of the things that you're talking about as was kind of people on Tik Tok, that was saying how much their business is failing, and it's going really poorly and all the rest of it. And it kind of annoyed you a bit. When you were talking about mindset and manifestation, and you've just talked about alignment as well. Talk to me a bit about how you think about mindset manifestation and alignment when it comes to your business. Because I don't think a lot of business owners, if they do have that in their business and in their consciousness, I do think they talk about it a lot. And so I just love to know, like, yeah, what your thoughts are,

Maddy Avery
I could talk about this all day, I first of all want to preface this and say I very much consider myself to sit in my masculine energy, a lot of the time, I'm not that feminine, flowy person, I'm very much. I'm an ally to like, do things I like the idea of like money and power and all those kinds of dynamics. So that's where I sit with saying that the way I say manifestation is one through like a scientific standpoint of neural reprogramming and using hypnosis to form new neural pathways, and the subconscious mind and all of like, the very science driven stuff. But then I also have a very spiritual element to it as well, where I do believe in a higher power, whatever that looks like. I do believe all the biblical scriptures are all talking and saying exactly the same things. It's just how we interpret it is different, I really think there is this whole idea of energy and vibrations. And basically, if you are living your purpose, I think everyone has a purpose here. And our purpose is we come to figure out what our purpose is, through all the shitty things that we've experienced, and that we've had to overcome. I know that's, that's the case with myself. But I really think that if you are, if your vibration is, at the right level, if you are matching the vibrations of what you're trying to call in, what you're trying to manifest, things will just start flowing. And as I said before, about, like amazing things just coming in out of thin air. That's what I mean, if you are living in alignment with your best self with your higher self, then good shape will just happen to you. And if things aren't working for you, if everything is a fight and a battle, you're not where you're supposed to be, the universe is making it hard for you, so that you can level up. And I always say the best things happen right after you've just gone through like a rock bottom a really shitty time. Because if you were just average in like vanilla, you wouldn't be forced to make a change in your life. So for me, I had to have this really tough year last year, in order to realize and be honest with myself of what I actually wanted. And where I am now. It's like it's always a work in progress. But where I am now is so much more in alignment with where I should have always been, instead of living this idea of you know, someone else's idea of what success looks like.

Suzanne Chadwick
I just feel like I need to sit in silence Just for a little bit based on what you just like that just like sunk in in a very deep way for me right now, which I just love when you talk about and I feel like people struggle with this, which is the your vibrational alignment. So cheesy, I love this conversation. How do you try and be in your vibrational alignment with your higher self.

Maddy Avery
So what I want everyone to do is to look up on their phones. I think if you type in like vibrational frequency scale, there is literally I don't know how scientific this is, this is what I mean I love the science. But at the same time, I also love this woowoo stuff as well, where at the bottom of this frequency chart there is like fear, guilt, shame, that's your lowest frequency and I spent a good portion of my life in that frequency. And what I have to do and what everyone has to do is work on their self worth their deservingness in order to move up the ladder until you reach the very top which is love, like love is the ultimate vibration that you can be up. Now what I find that I am now I'm kind of sitting like two thirds of the way up and you kind of like dangle around some frequencies. And what you'll know notice and what people will also notice is if they are in like, the 50%, high up, that you're kind of like, right between like good frequencies and, and lower frequencies. And so what happens is you live at like an average frequency. But then something a minor inconvenience happens like someone gets steals your parking spot, for example, you dip real quick into those shitty feelings. And it's because you're just teetering on the edge there. So the higher up you go in the frequency, the better the stuff you can attract. And when we talk about so how do I actually increase my frequency? Everyone, you is different. But what I found works for me and works for a lot of people is sunshine, I really believe the sun like we're like solar batteries, and the sun will literally charge us and make us feel great. Eating healthy organic food. When I had my when I had really bad burnout, anxiety, depression, I kind of figured out if I drink this green smoothie from the organic store, it does make me feel better. So this was before I'd like woken up and realized all of this stuff, but like eating vegetables, that is good for you, and you will feel better for it not just in your body. But like getting closer to nature in general, that will raise your frequency. The other thing that I find raises your frequency or your vibration is setting really strong boundaries. So the I think the reason why now I'm really making an effort to just say how I feel and say how it is I was a really chronic people pleaser that didn't use to speak up and there are still areas in my life where I maybe don't speak up as much as I should be. But when I started to show up for myself and stand up for myself and just verbalize if I wasn't happy with something that is you honoring yourself your self worth and that is how you increase your vibrational frequency.

Suzanne Chadwick
Amazing, so good. So do you find that those are the key things that you focus on in practice? Like as much as possible?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, my husband literally expects a breakdown if he knows I haven't been up doing my beach walks in the morning. He like he's like you've probably got a week where if you don't do it, like then it starts to dip. But yeah, it's it's also things like feeding your brain with like when we talk about what you consume. It's not just what you eat, but it's what you've listened to. It's what you read. It's what you watch, like, I will never I don't listen to any like, I know it's not the worst thing in the world, but I won't listen to any like murder mystery, or like murder serial killer shit, because that doesn't make me feel good. And I you know, I don't watch any scary movies. I don't watch any sad things. I just Yeah, I know what works for me. Yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick
I'm like rom coms comedies fun live. I'm like, if you're gonna entertain yourself, have joy.

Maddy Avery
But even like I even used to be like a big like housewives or like, reality TV fan as well, because I just used to be so curious into that life. I even don't do that anymore. I just I don't even I guess that's why I like the I suppose like, the more you get into spirituality, the less you do consume that stuff. Because you just You're so aware of what of what makes you feel good? Or what makes you feel shitty? And yeah, it's just, it's like, if you eat lots of junk food, you feel shitty? If you watch lots of junk TV, you feel shitty?

Suzanne Chadwick
Yes, true. And so I want to touch back on what you were talking about online, which was around because a lot of people are finding business quite hard at the moment. And I know that you were sort of saying there were some people on ticked on online, I'm gonna say online instead of on Tik Tok online, who was sort of saying how rough it's been. And I just want to talk about the mindset comment, because you were sort of saying, you know, obviously, the thoughts that you have your mindset create your reality, which my audience know, I love to talk about. And so I just want to talk about when things are hard and managing your mind. What would you sort of say to people who are in that struggle

Maddy Avery
With anything hard or shitty in your life repeat to yourself, it's not happening to me, it's happening for me. In every tough situation, there is an opportunity for you to level up and to do better. Like I mentioned, if things Be honest with yourself, if things were just like, Okay, you're not going to be motivated to make big changes. If your business is literally in the toilet and you have to do something in order to turn it around or you're shutting your doors. You are going to work pretty friggin hard to make that happen. And then, if you do it in a way that is in alignment with what you honestly want. That's how things work out. I've built my business previously, from the idea from ego, a lot of ego. And this idea of what success looks like on the outside. And yeah, I achieved a level of success in doing it that way. But as I said, I was so miserable. And so that's when the universe or who, God, whoever, whatever out there, started taking shit from me, we had a contractor, still our biggest client, like a huge client like, and I could be angry, and I could blame that person, I could blame myself. But instead, I saw it as an opportunity to be like, okay, for some whatever reason, I'm not supposed to be in this place that I'm in right now. I don't believe that you need to always think positive thoughts. That's like toxic positivity. We're not about that. It is about having a moment. I still get sad sometimes. And I still like, I got a shitty client email earlier today, which I was disappointed about. And I literally sat in the meeting room with the head on my head on the table for 10 minutes, I got one of the team to come down, I kind of pep talk me out of it. All right, get back up, get on with it, how can we fix it for next time. Just keep moving forward. But also, how to know it's hard because in what on one hand, I don't want to be encouraging people to be in like this dog paddling energy, which I found myself in a lot last year. I want it, I want you to you have to be really honest with yourself. If you're trying to if you're struggling, and you've built this business, and it's not really what you want to be doing, then it's okay to say that and just stop and just do it another way or to start something else completely.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing is, is that when, when things do get hard, and sometimes it's just kind of like nothing's working, or I'm doing it, but but we're not kind of in the mindset of like, I'll figure this out. Yeah, it's kind of like, hands in the air splashing in the puddle for a really long time. And not kind of being in that mindset of Alright, like, let's figure this out. And if it is in alignment, if it is what we want, if it's just not working, what are we going to do? And so being in that energy rather than the

Maddy Avery
Yeah, I think for me, as well, I've always been one of those people. That's just like, just try it, see if it works. And if it doesn't work, you'll jump to something else. So I've been starting businesses since I was like nine. And like, I've still my mom's hassling about getting some old stock out of anyone wants to buy some wet weather jackets, I've got like 500. But like, I like I would have lost what 20 grand on that business when I was like 20 years old. But you know what, that was the last business that I started in that did okay, before I then started my agency. And I had to go from where I had to go through that I was growing this business that was doing quite well. And yet when I needed some support with digital marketing agencies, even though I worked in marketing, I worked with big corporates. When I was looking for help with Digital Marketing for Small Business, there was no one out there. And that's where birdcage then came along. We came along before a lot of before the wave of small business marketing agencies started and it's because of that business, that I couldn't grow any more. And you could have looked at that and said, Oh, well, that was a failed or that, you know, that was a failed business? No, because it parlayed into what I'm doing now.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, and it's all a journey. I just think that's about as well. It's like, nothing, nothing is wrong. It's just what it's going to push you towards next time. And we learn along the way as well. So I think that's a perfect segue to into marketing and business growth. Because I know that that's something that you love to share as well, which is what is what are you seeing in the market when it comes to marketing? Obviously, you're working with large businesses. So what do we need to know?

Maddy Avery
So we work with small to large to government or we work with everyone. And what I have to honestly say I used to think small businesses would disadvantage when it came to marketing because we didn't have the budgets that big corporates have. It is now the opposite consumers and your customers. They want to connect with a real person through digital marketing or through the their screens. That's how they want to shop they want to, they want to buy into stories they want to buy from people. They want to have a relationship with how they're spending their money, customers are so spoilt for choice. It's not just about features and benefits. It's not just about what's going to give me the best result at the best price anymore. It's what's going to do those things, but that I also feel really good about engaging with so big businesses, unless they get some sort of a mascot or pay celebrity millions of dollars. They don't have a face of the business as a small business owner. You should be the face of the business. So, and people that tell me, I don't want to be the face of the business, it's possible to grow through digital marketing, but to be the face of the business is literally a shortcut to success through digital marketing. So what I'm working so hard on and what my team are working so hard on is getting our clients to put their face on camera and just show up and just start making videos and start posting them on the internet. That is, that's, that's the key. That's the secret, because

Suzanne Chadwick
I know that you have been talking a lot about short form video. And that is what you are advising a lot of your clients to focus on. And so before we talk about any other marketing strategies, you obviously said earlier, when we first started, that you never really felt connected to Instagram. I kind of feel like I love stories. I love to hang out there. I connect with my community, but that's about it. As far as the different features go. Talk to me about like what that transition for you has been and why you are doing what you're doing on Tik Tok?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, I think what it is, for me, I don't like overly curated content, I don't mind consuming it on Pinterest, for example, I think Pinterest is a great platform for very curated visually aesthetic stuff. But for me, I was never that Instagram person where I was perfectly groomed every day, my I love a clean space. But I would never like it just took too long. I'm not interested for me. Social media and content is an energetic exchange. And I was trying to film some content earlier today. And I was just not feeling it. And I'm not going to post those videos because you guys won't feel like you'll feel much energy on the other end. So the fact that Instagram stories and tick tock allows, it's almost like it's expected that the quality isn't that good, that you might have a wobbly camera that your sound might not be that good. It's almost like the more it's like that the more authentic it feels. And that's what people want. People are done with engaging with fake shit they want. They want a real human and they want real connection to come through.

Suzanne Chadwick
And what's your thoughts around how like the kind of content that you're creating and sharing? Because you are very straight talking? And very blunt, which like I said, I love very my jam. How have you found that? So that's completely on purpose.

Maddy Avery
Yeah, it's this idea of creating polarizing content. And you might set left, I don't consider for what I actually want to say. I'm like turning this doubt. So I don't consider myself to be particularly controversial or polarizing. But even for brands like a baby brand, for example, like, let's call it a beige baby brand, which I'm all for beige baby brands. But I believe that even a brand like that, there is a way for you to say something differently, or to say something that's going to piss a will not resonate with a group of people and you want that you don't want to be the brand that's posting vanilla content that people are like, oh, yeah, or don't even think twice about you want to be a brand where people are either like, I hate her, or, oh my god, I love her. And that's what you want to get emotion out of people, you are never going to please everyone. So why don't you really work on pleasing a very specific group of people. And you do that by being strategic with what you say and how you say it.

Suzanne Chadwick
Okay, and with your content strategies that you're talking to clients about that is very short form video focused? Is there anything that you think could be helpful for my listeners when it comes to like how much you're creating as well? Like, what are you sort of saying to them about I think that's a scat, like that's something that people are scared about, which is like, how much do I have to create?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, and I'm going to scare you multiple times a day. If you if you you can't tell me that your business is struggling, you're not making sales. And yet you refuse to put your face on camera and you refuse to spend 45 minutes in a day showing up creating content. That's it doesn't need to be it doesn't need to take you all day if your content if three videos is taking you all day to film you're doing it wrong. You need to figure out there are ways that we can do it. So there are either you can focus on creating one video that's like really like high quality takes you a bit longer to film and then maybe two other videos which is you just like I'm talking product but filming lack of flatlay of your products and putting some text over the top like that literally can take you 10 minutes. So you can split your content up. So you have, you know, one post a day or a couple of posts a week, which are more time intensive to make. And then you can add other low, more low effort videos into the mix. Or you can just say fuck the aesthetic. And I'm going to show up authentically me. And I'm just going to post it and I'm not going to think too much about it, which is what I do. I'm not 100% Happy with every video that goes up. But it's better up than sitting in my drafts. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And are you advising all clients on tick tock, as in? Like, that's what you're telling them to do? Who are you telling to do that? And who are you kind of saying you don't need to? We are still we are still okay. We're still really focusing on Instagram for a lot of our clients, because that's where they feel comfy, okay. But when we start working with them, we are the end game is getting them on to tic toc and also getting them onto Pinterest. But if we start working with a client, because we work both done for you, where we can do a lot of your marketing for you, or our new favorite ways through consulting, which is also seems to be a lot of your favorite way, because it's people are loving the service. But I don't want to scare people from the start. But yes, that is my agenda, my hidden agenda. I'm getting you on to tick tock. The reason why we know that Facebook is grateful like over 40 fives, like older and even regional demographics. We know Instagram is good for the millennials. So the you know, the US amongst us. Tick tock, you think it's for younger people, but it's no tick tock. There are people of all ages, all walks of life, Big C suite executives that are bringing me in to meet their CEOs of big corporate businesses, owners of local businesses, young people, old people tick tock is like, it changes the game, you need to think about it differently. And if you are, as I said, if you're serious about growth, and you're going to try it, yeah, I'm here for this conversation. It's so important.

Suzanne Chadwick
So so good. And so anything else from a marketing perspective that you've been that it's worth kind of knowing or noting at the moment?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, so we haven't. And one thing I do speak quite a bit about as well is marketing funnels. And I've haven't spoken lately quite as much. But essentially, a marketing funnel is that is the system that we're using for all of our clients. Now, the idea of a funnel is that you are funneling people through their customer journey with you, they're not just going to see an ad and buy the thing. That's not how it works. Think about how you online shop, you check a brand out on 10 different platforms, and spend a few weeks maybe even researching what you're going to buy before you commit. So you need to show up. In that same way, we use a funnel in order to organize the platforms we use, the messages we send. Most of our businesses are really great at the middle and the bottom of funnel content that is the trust building, which is middle of funnel so like behind the scenes of my business and pack an order with me and all of that kind of stuff. Bottom of funnel is like this is your rivals like it's fails focus if we're having a sale or unlimited offer, or all that kind of stuff, where you go the not so good as the top of funnel, and that is the content that I like to also call 90s product placement content, where you are living, you're sharing some content about a topic that would interest your audiences, but you're not explicitly talking about your business, you are maybe referring to it in like a throwaway comment or using your product or mentioning something about your service, but it's not actually talking about your business. So a creator want to give a huge shout out to which I'm sure you've seen prolific on Tik Tok as well as Britney Saunders. She is absolutely nailing the top of funnel content game and go and check out her brand. Is fate the label one of her Oh, yeah, I know. Yeah, she literally just posts, random dancing videos, and tic TOCs not all about dancing, but she just post random videos about her job working in the warehouse, packing orders of whatever. There's no mention of her products at all in those videos. And yet she's absolutely killing it. Because you discover her through her viral content because that content goes viral. You then think who is this person? I think I like her. And then you eventually work down her funnel, and then you'll convert at the end. That's how funnel works.

Suzanne Chadwick
And I have been analyzing my own behavior as a user on the platform like in the last couple of weeks. And I find people and because I love video, and I love podcasts, and because the content format is longer than Instagram is. And like you said, I'm just not really into the Creator, I don't want to like scroll through a carousel and read things. I don't want to read a long caption. Like, I'd rather sit and listen to somebody. And so I find somebody I listened to like, a number of their videos, I've now like they build trust very quickly, because I'm like, I love what they're talking about. I love their vibe. I love the way that they're sharing it. And I go to their Instagram, I go to their LinkedIn bio. And it's been really interesting, because I'm like, watching myself as a user, as to what's really resonating for me, what I keep coming back for what I'm loving. And then also like, what how quickly I then go and check out what like what else they've got and what else they do. And it has been fast like it has been fast when I found somebody I've really liked. I'm like, Tell me more.

Maddy Avery
Suz's I have to ask though, the these are always going to be people that have a different opinion or a different way of seeing something right? They're not just people spitting out the same rubbish that's on all the platforms. They're telling you something new, or they're making you see it through a different way. Right.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah. And it's unpolished. I think it's kind of going back to the NOC curated. Yeah. Like I was, I can't remember if I who I heard this from but anyway, it was like when somebody's doing their makeup or their skin routine, and they're telling me social media tips. Yeah. It's like, I'm they've contacted me on FaceTime. Did you say that somebody said that might have been viewed. And it feels like really personal like, it's like, I'm kind of there behind the scenes with them having a personal interaction and conversation. And even watching myself in that kind of going. I love watching people who are telling me what skincare they've got. But they're also telling me business or marketing tips or something like that. And just their personality and the way in which they're presenting their content, which is so kind of just real and normal, and not all polished, and processed. I love it.

Maddy Avery
There's something else to that as well, though, this is tapping into some marketing psychology, which I am obsessed with. And it sounds like you are on that trade, which humans love to complete things. So it's why we have things like in user experience design, like loading bars on forms, where you're stepping through, it's because as humans, we can't help but when I finished that loading bar off, and it's the same when someone's putting their makeup on, you see them starting their routine, you want to see the end of them finishing putting their makeup on. And so that's how you're like, on a subconscious level, you are watching that, but you're also absorbing what they're saying. So yeah, things like that things like it's why time lapses work really well as well. Like if you're packing an order, for example, people want to see you finish packing the order. And that's why when we don't get to see the end of something like if a movie suddenly stops or a series stops, we get really angry because we wanted to see the completion. So those kinds of tactics as well. These are all tactics, though. nothing substitutes for connecting with audiences and good messaging. But if you have a good message on top of using little marketing psychology tools as well, that's how you that's how you win.

Suzanne Chadwick
I got it. I love it. I have been fascinated. I mean, I've kind of been on tick tock for a while, but I've not been using it for business, the way that I've done kind of with Instagram. And so now I'm like analyzing it all. All of my own buying behaviors as well, which is so so good. Amazing. Yeah, for sure. Anything else that we should know,

Maddy Avery
I guess I just want to go back to the idea of how frequently you should be posting on your social media. So you need to think of it like winning the lotto. If you buy a lotto ticket once a month, you have 12 chances of winning the lotto in a year, right? It's the same but if you buy a ticket every week, you have 52 chances to win the lotto in a year. I want you to think of winning the lotto the same way as like going viral or getting sales or getting direct customers to your business. If you're posting once a week, you have 52 chances of going viral or getting sales coming through your content. If you're posting every single day you have 365 chances if you're posting multiple times a day you have like what 700 1500 chances in a year in order to go viral or like have that break have that one video that just changes your entire life because that is what it can do.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah. And is there any anything like outside of social media that is working really well for clients as well?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, definitely you need. I talk about tick tock and social media and content. But it needs to be part of a holistic strategy. So we were always a full service marketing agency. We did ditch Google behind. No, it was so controversial. I know, I didn't think it was gonna upset as many people as it did. But again, like people that aren't a big fan of Google came flocking the amount of discovery calls we had that week. And I just so so for my listeners, what did you say? I can't remember exactly basically said, we've decided to ditch managing Google. Well, yeah, we've just decided to get ditch search marketing. So Google ads and SEO. Now, like, again, that's not the whole truth. I suppose I did go on to clarify that we still build websites with SEO built in. We have an SEO partner that we are now referring our clients to if they feel really strongly about it, or if we really think okay, yeah, this makes sense for local business as well, SEO Absolutely, still make sense. But we're not. We're prioritizing social media. We're prioritizing social media ads, organic social media. We're also prioritizing email marketing. And above all, we are prioritizing, making sure that brands have a brand strategy. They know who their audience is, and they know how to speak to them in a way that people care.

Suzanne Chadwick
More about that, speaking to people in a way that people care,

Maddy Avery
It's not enough to just solve pain points. And it's not enough to just have show the transformation either. Although most of you are not doing that. Even. So where where I would recommend starting is define the demographics define the demographics are like, you know, age, sex, location, like all those tangible defining things. psychographics is like their values, their interests, I always say, think about how you like to how your audience likes to spend their weekend, for example, then writing their pain points. So what is the problem that you're trying to solve? And yes, every brand is solving a problem. Even if it's like a luxury shoe brand, you are still solving a problem, you are solving the problem of showing status, for example. And then the transformation is what? Yeah, what you actually do for your customers, what you deliver how they feel after working with you. So you need to know all of these things about your audience. So that those things then literally write your marketing messages for you. So that you literally create social media posts that use the language that your customers are using when they're talking about their pain points. This is the step that pretty much no one comes to us with inadequate brand strategy we even if they think they do, it's not deep enough. You need to understand what is subconsciously driving your audiences, what is it that they're trying to achieve in their life? What kind of person are they trying to show up as? And then you need to show them how you can help them become that person?

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, I love it. I always call it desire based marketing. It's like, what's their deepest desire? What is it that they want is the end game? And then how can you help them to?

Maddy Avery
Yeah, desired outcome as well? Yeah, it's, it's even what is the identity that they're desiring. So that's what we're all doing. That's, that's what we're all buying things for. It's so that we present us, not even to the world, but we're proving to ourselves that we are this type of person, every purchase you make is a step towards a desired status, the status doesn't have to be like success, or high money status. That is what we think of a status could be like off grid, like living, you know, living off grid Greenie status, in which case, they're choosing not to buy a car. Instead, they're choosing to buy a bike. And if you're selling bikes to people that want to live off grid, that's niche, but that would be a killer market. So you need to make sure your messaging aligns with that.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, I love that. And who what's the desire that your clients have? Who have you don't ask me that I strategize my own brand. What is it because when you say that to me, like I know so the reason that I came up with courageously bold branding for myself, was because that's what my clients used to say to me. I want to be like bold like you I want to be more courageous. I want to be more confident like I'm sick of being in my own way. So all my messaging is literally just been what clients have said. So I always just love to know like, what, what do your clients come to you and say that they want more

Maddy Avery
I think it's your I actually really struggle with this to be completely honest. But I believe it's got to do with this idea of my clients, they see themselves as intelligent action takers, all they need to complete that picture in order to get the success, whatever that looks like for them is clarity, and someone to really just tell them what they need to do. And that's the biggest value I see that we offer, you can probably Google all the techniques or the tactics that and the strategies that we even use, like you could learn that through YouTube. But we are the shortcut through all of the noise that will literally say, step by step, this is the things that you need to do in your business to take you from where you are now to where you want to be. I do believe a lot for a lot of our clients, they do want, they want to go beyond that small business mentality. And I think the fact that we do work with a lot of bigger businesses as well, like, we see all areas, we still see every end of the spectrum. But most of my clients will say to me things like, I don't want to be the face of my business, because I don't want to have that small business vibe to it anymore. And I totally get that because I kind of feel the same. I'm not I'm not about that. Like, oh, buy from me, because I'm a small business. And that's the only reason to buy from me. I just want people to buy from us or buy a product from a client, because it is legitimately the best option for them.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah. But I do think that the work that you're the work was this higher work and the work that you're doing. But you know, I think that you're building, birdcage marketing brand on tick tock, based on how honest you are about things and how clear you are about the marketing that you do the clients that you work with what's working, what's not. And I think that, you know, I'm gonna say I've been burned badly by a marketing agency in the past last year. And I think that we just don't want the fluff. Like, we just want straightforward, honest, this is the crux of it, like, this is what you need to do. And so I think that, you know, if those are the types of clients that you're looking for, where they're just like, don't give me the fluff and all the rest of it, like, I just want results, and I want somebody who talks straight. I think that, you know, that's kind of speaking to what you were saying before is that people want to connect with a person, not just a brand, as well, because then we can kind of get a feel for you who you are, what your business might be like, and whether it's the right fit for us. 200%.

Maddy Avery
I know, just on the agency issue. It is why I started my second business at the beginning of this year, second business, I started like 20, that it's like every Academy of Marketing is for other freelance marketers, small agency owners, if I literally teach them exactly what we do, like probably not a good move in terms of like competition sets where I'm literally telling people to use our strategy templates. But for me, it's like, I'm so sick of seeing subpar marketing is such an unregulated industry, where anyone can open a laptop and call themselves a web designer or ad specialist, because there's no formal qualifications, there's no one regulating this stuff. So for me, it was really important to be able to let's increase the standard in the industry, for clients as a whole. That's number one. But number two, I also think that the way that agencies have operated, that is the way that they operated in the 60s, the done for you model of a client comes to an agency, you get an account manager, they come up with some ideas, and then there's an implementation team and a client just says yes or no, that doesn't work anymore. That worked when you have to make a billboard, maybe a TV commercial. But now it's expected and what audiences want is content to come from inside of your business to connect and to resonate and to build trust. An agency can't do that for you. You even a done for you solution. There is a lot of you're still doing a lot of stuff for the client. So instead of fighting against that we still do have done for you services, especially like email marketing. Carrying a lot of the mental load is what we do a lot of building websites, obviously, copywriting, but the consulting that we do the blended approach the done with you approach, that is where I see the future for agencies for the benefit of the agency and the client like that's how you can produce the best results. Even the most best intentioned agency I could think can still be labeled as an agency that maybe burn a client because they haven't gotten the results. But it's because the way that they're working doesn't work anymore. But then there also are just some shitty agencies that just like, just want to take your money.

Suzanne Chadwick
Yeah, so a whole other episode but good side. So good. Maddy, thank you so much for coming on. I know, I was like, Tell me your story. Let's talk about manifestation and mindset. Let's talk about marketing tips, which is why I love to kind of calling this a bit of a fireside chat. Because yeah, I love getting into all the different things because I do think this is one of the things you guys are gonna hate me after this. One of the things I really love about tick tock is just the multi dimensional, like scope that you've got, like you can, it's not just about just talking about business or just talking about one thing. It's like I love a day in the life and I love seeing like your dog. And I love saying like the house that you're manifesting, and yeah, all of that sort of stuff. And I just think it's just really building such a deeper connection between us and our communities. And we all know that community is where it's at. And that's what you know, people want to be part of. And so yeah, I love everything that you're sharing, and I so appreciate you coming on and sharing it with my listeners too.

Maddy Avery
Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah, my pleasure.

Suzanne Chadwick
So well, we'll obviously have all your links, but for those who are walking the dog, where can they find you?

Maddy Avery
So go to tick tock first before Instagram. So tick tock, I am Maddie birdcage on tick tock, I also have an Instagram handle with I think kind of there may be an underscore in there somewhere. But that's where you can follow the new house journey. We've just, I've just bought my dream house. So that's all there. But then otherwise, on Instagram, we are birdcage marketing that is managed by all of the team. So if you want to get to know the whole team, that's the best place to do it. But we are also launching a birdcage tic toc as of today as well. So stay tuned for that exciting

Suzanne Chadwick
Well, we will have all the links and you can obviously go and connect with Maddie and her team as well. But thanks so much. Lovely. Really appreciate it.

Maddy Avery
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Suzanne Chadwick
Oh, did you love it? Did you love the juicy fireside chat. I would love to know number one. If you loved it, then obviously I would love you to share it with your community on your socials tag Maddie and I if you have not followed the podcast, be sure to subscribe. And the third thing I'd love to ask is if you could leave a review that would be amazing. I would so appreciate it because I love bringing you these podcast episodes and I want to keep doing it. And as you know leaving reviews, subscribing to the podcast sharing it helps more people to get their ears on it and obviously helps us to find more people who love what we do as well. So if you had to CS chadwick.com, forward slash A B BL for brandbuilders lab, then you will be able to leave a review there. So have an amazing day and I will speak with you soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai