Suzanne Chadwick  00:00

Hey, lovely, welcome back to the podcast. Amazing to have you here. As always, I am going to do a very short intro because I am almost losing my voice. So I wanted to introduce you to our guest today. Deidre Tshien who is the CEO of Capsho, which is the world's first AI powered podcast copywriter. It helps experts who podcast create their episode titles, descriptions, shownotes social media posts, and promo emails. And that's just from the audio file. So as a podcaster, this was something that I was super interested in. I was recently on Deidre's podcast as well talking all things business and branding and my journey. And so I really wanted to get her on the podcast because her journey has been really unique and different. And I want to say the one thing that I loved about her story is all the ups and downs. And I think sometimes we just see these massive success stories who, you know, it just went from strength to strength. And whilst there were a couple of things, you know, it was always good and things grew. But I just think that Deidre went through, you know, failed businesses, ideas that weren't quite there, they decided to close businesses, and go to the next thing, they moved to New York. And now they're on this journey of developing Capsho, which is now in beta stage. So I very much looking forward to using it and testing it out. But this is really a business story about the messy middle, and all the bits in between. And I just love that we get to share all aspects of business with you so that you know that it's a journey, and that we're all on the journey together to grow our businesses and make mistakes and learn and go from there and keep going and keep having the ideas and pushing through as well. So I hope you enjoy this episode. I can't wait to share it with you.

Suzanne Chadwick  02:37

Deidre, welcome to the brandbuilders Lab podcast.

Deidre Tshien  02:41

Thanks, Suz. Thanks so much for having me on.

Suzanne Chadwick  02:43

My pleasure. It looks so lovely where you are. I know that you're in New York and is it afternoon there right now.

Deidre Tshien  02:49

It is, it's 5pm right now when daylight savings. So it's yet so nice and bright here.

Suzanne Chadwick  02:55

So nice. So nice. So I was on your podcast a little while ago, one of your people reached out and and it was such a good conversation. And so I really wanted to have you on so that we can talk a little bit more about your business capsho. But you've had such an interesting journey when it comes to the multiple businesses that you've created. And as my audience are women in business, who are growing businesses all over the world, I just thought it would be such a great opportunity for us to really talk about that journey, the lessons learned, and how you kind of ended up where you are now sound good. 

Deidre Tshien  03:38

Oh my gosh, Suz I have so many stories to tell you. 

Suzanne Chadwick  03:42

I love it. I love it. We love a good story. So you're in good company. Now listen, before we dive in, do you want to just let my listeners know a little bit about you right now? And what you're doing at this point in time?

Deidre Tshien  03:55

Yes. So right now I am in New York City. And having a ball. I'm having so much fun. And I have yeah I've just launched literally end of last year, so just few months ago, the MVP of our software called capsho and what it does, it's kind of it's interesting. We're even at this period now. And I'm totally happy to talk about this. But we're in this interesting phase of really identifying who the audience exactly is that we're going after. And that might mean that the shape of the software changes a little bit, obviously. So initially, it was created to help entrepreneurs turn their stories into a backhand captions more and more as we're niching down. We're finding that that is slightly changing, like the software itself is slightly changed. So totally happy to go into what that means. 

Suzanne Chadwick  04:43

But yeah, you know, I feel like that's even a great place to start. Because sometimes we hear from people and we hear their stories. We're like, I've got this amazing thing and this is what it does. And but everybody goes through that messy middle. Like we start with an idea and we're like this This is gonna be awesome. This is what I want it to be. And then you get into it. And you're like, Ooh, interesting. We should maybe move it in this direction. So I feel like we all go through that. But listen, let's, let's start at the beginning. So where did you start with your entrepreneurial journey?

Deidre Tshien  05:17

Hmm. So, gosh, close to a decade ago, in Sydney, where I was raised, where I grew up, and we started so my husband and I started a dessert bar called the choc bite. And it's, it was it was hard. I'm gonna tell you how we talk about the messy middle. It was like the messy beginning and middle. Everything in between, yeah. So yeah

Suzanne Chadwick  05:44

Hang on a second. What were you doing before that? So before you both started the business, what were you both doing?

Deidre Tshien  05:50

I was in corporate. So I was working at Macquarie Bank. Yeah. Which, it's so refreshing to speak to another Aussie because you're kind of like, Yeah, I know Macquarie Bank.

Suzanne Chadwick  06:00

They used to be a client of mine. Yeah

Deidre Tshien  06:02

Whereas over here it's like, who, what is Macquarie?

Suzanne Chadwick  06:06

Okay. What were you doing for them?

Deidre Tshien  06:10

So I have, funny story, so I actually started working for Macquarie part time, actually when I was in uni. And so at that time, I was in the wealth management team. And then when I graduated, I had a choice between going into management, consulting or staying with Macquarie and I decided to stay with Macquarie because they were working on some really exciting projects that I had the chance to be in on. And from there, I've kind of I've always been more in strategy. So I've always been in strategy teams. And I went into the newly formed innovation team, which was really cool. So that was a lot of fun. And then I went into client experience and insights, because I actually helped roll out that whole programme inside of banking, the banking and financial services.

Suzanne Chadwick  06:56

Thing about I love it. Sometimes it's nice to kind of go back to corporate world, just for a moment, like yes, strategy, innovation, all those lines where they had loads of money, and you were just like, oh my gosh, like this is incredible. No budget. Yeah.

Deidre Tshien  07:12

So I guess I was doing all of that. So and I was doing some of that when we started the business, I was still working full time as well, when we started the business. So my husband Ash, he was actually, when we made the decision to open the business. He was actually studying medicine. So he was halfway through his medical medicine degree.

Suzanne Chadwick  07:30

You were in finance, he was in medicine, and you opened a dessert bar.

Deidre Tshien  07:35

Completely randomly. And neither of us would have background in hospitality isn't like when we hadn't even part time in hospitality. You know what I mean? Like we'd never had a casual job, nothing. We were like, yeah, why not? Insane. Because like a lot of it was because I think I always knew that I wanted to go into business for myself at some point. And Ash, I think he was just hating medicine at that point. And but he was really he started loving baking, because we kind of also just moved out of that at that time as well. And his mom was a big baker I used always bake. But and so when we moved out, he sort of picked up that mantle and he started baking, and I love my desserts. So he was always perfecting, you know, my favourite desserts for me. And yeah, from there, it was kind of like, well, why not? We'll just give this a go and see where it takes us. 

Suzanne Chadwick  08:29

And so when you decided to do that, because moving from Macquarie investment bank and medicine to dessert, what did family and friends and people around you say,

Deidre Tshien  08:41

Yes, I think funnily enough, family was like, I was actually surprised because I'm, you know, Asian, first migrants, so my, my parents were first migrants into Australia, and they were always very, like, I was cheated from like, third grade, you know, played the piano, went to selective school went to opportunity, like, all the things, you know, they wanted me to do medicine, I end up doing law instead, because I didn't want to do medicine. So, you know, I

Suzanne Chadwick  09:07

love that you didn't want to do medicine, so you did law instead

Deidre Tshien  09:15

but that was the thing I like they were like, it was very clear, you know, this, this path. And so I actually thought that I that my parents would have issues with you know, with me starting this business, but they were surprisingly really supportive. I think it was almost like once their job was done in a way you know, like, they got me into a good school and I got into a good degree, all of that stuff. Got a good job. Like they were like, You know what, it's now your life. Really does that. Actually this? Anyway, so Ash's family is always like they're super chill, but I found that our friends, surprisingly enough was like they were like, and I'd say broad brush, not all of them. Others Some were like, super supportive and they were supportive. But if you could just tell us a little bit of like, yeah, like a really, this is what you're gonna do. Because, you know, by the way, all our friends were like, you know, they were also lawyers and accountants, then they couldn't wrap their heads around this massive jump this complete change. So, yeah, that was interesting. For sure.

Suzanne Chadwick  10:25

Yeah. Always interesting when you did the big change. And so you were still working full time in your corporate job. And so how did the business kind of get off the ground?

Deidre Tshien  10:35

So ash deferred, and I say deferred in like, it's like, he was like, he, I think he, we knew he was never gonna go back. But it was just like the backup plan. At least, you know, you're right to that. So he was in full time. And I basically was, I went from corporate, you know, eight to went into work at like, eight left at around 5-5.30 and hop on the train, went into the shop, and worked until 11. Midnight, and then it was like, yep, day in, day out. That was like, that was

Deidre Tshien  11:10

my life. And I was tough. I you know, I used to have these power naps on the train ride was a 20 minute train ride from the city to our first or was in Burwood in Sydney. And I, and there was a moment like, there was actually a time when I did I fell asleep. And I ended up at the end of the train. Yeah, so it's just when things like that happen, you just know, okay, something has to change, right? Like, it's just not sustainable. And so yeah, I kind of, you know, we didn't have the luxury. Again, this was something that we did not realise going into hospitality into brick and mortar, I didn't have the luxury yet to give up my job, because we had, we were in quite a bit of debt, you know, with fit out, like, it's not cheap to actually get a store stood up. So even before you open your, you're in debt already, we had a lease agreement in place, like we had all these things I didn't have luxury of, you know, at that time, you know, giving up my job. So we had to make it work, we had to, like, Get this thing off the ground, get it pumping. And we didn't I you know, it's really funny, I was actually just saying this to my co founder, my current co founder, where like, at the time, I could not have even imagined getting out of that world of hurt, getting out of that point in time. Like, how in the world? Are we going to have this work? I couldn't even envisage what that would look like. Because I was just so like, like, yeah, how are we gonna make this happen? How?

Suzanne Chadwick  12:47

So interesting. And so what at what point did you decide to leave your role?

Deidre Tshien  12:55

So basically, at the point when we found out that, so gosh, that was this would have been three and a half to four years into having opened.

Suzanne Chadwick  13:07

Wow

Deidre Tshien  13:08

yeah. So over time we actually had grown. So we had five stores. The chocolate, which was crazy, because again, as I said, I could never have imagined being out of even just that one stores, like, you know, struggles. But we scaled probably too quickly. I'm not gonna lie. But we gelled really quickly. And then we

Suzanne Chadwick  13:31

was the revenue the revenue was coming in, like the stores were doing well, that's why he decided to expand.

Deidre Tshien  13:38

Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah, that was that was what was happening. And so we were investing, we're basically reinvesting everything that we were making, from each store back into, into growing, which is still kept kept. Meaning that was hard to stop working, because that was essentially our income, because we weren't really drawing an income because we were just reinvesting it all back into growth. But at that point, we found out that our store manager of our city store had been stealing from us for quite a while, I want to say because it was hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Gosh, it was Yeah, so I think it was at that moment when it was like it because I think for me, I probably didn't quite consciously sit down or take the moment to think about, like, what I was, I was just like, you know, because for me, it was like, Yeah, every day, you know, you get up and, and by that time, I didn't actually have to work in stores anymore. Because, you know, we had a team and you know, that was it was doing its thing and I was just working more like strategy back in like, you know, stuff where I could do on the weekends or you know, and I think it took a moment like that to actually snap me out of like, is this where we want to be? Is this what I want to be doing? You know, where I want to be is this you know, all of that because that means Give me that moment made me pause and reflect on what we're actually doing. And I think seems weird now to say this, but I needed something like that to like, snap me out of this. Almost like, being on the hamster wheel. Yeah, just doing and doing and doing. Yeah.

Suzanne Chadwick  15:17

Yeah. And so what was the next step from there?

Deidre Tshien  15:20

Well, I am we also, you know, we were kind of like, kind of rebooted everything. So it was like, do we want to still be in this business because we can keep growing? And, you know, that's definitely a viable path or, or we don't, we decided not to, and we decided to do something else. So I've always wanted to live and work overseas. And so I was just like, let's just do it, like, what's really holding us back? Like, if we were able to do anything right now in the world, like, what would we do? And that was what, you know, we wanted to do. And at the time, I was actually exploring a new idea with my now co founder, Bonner, and it was in fashion technology. So we met in corporate as well she was also working with Macquarie and you know, there was this because I don't like shopping and I just remember I remember I know Yeah, yeah. But I remember coming in one day and I was just like, on like, I just spent the whole night trying to find stuff for me. Online I'm on you know the like so gosh, oh my god, this is bad. What's the big online store in Australia? I'm

Suzanne Chadwick  16:42

like ASOS.

Deidre Tshien  16:43

I was gonna say ASOS no the the cute the consolidator have kind of the get they were massive. Anyway, I was on this website. And I was on page like, cut. I think I ended up being on page 90 as though this is ridiculous. So the next morning, I ended up not buying anything else, like I spent the whole night trying to find something to wear. Because Winter's coming up. And I mean, you know, clothes, warm clothes. And, and so we just started talking about, you know, wouldn't it be nice to have this, like, personal stylist, but like online automated? By the way, this is not a new idea? I think there's been a lot of either attempts or people doing this. But at the time, we're like, oh, yeah, this could be really cool. Let's explore it. So we're working on this fashion technology idea. And that kind of point. And so that was that that coincided with, you know, finding out that we're getting stolen from which, then, you know, we were kind of looking at everything. And then I was like, Well, what better place to explore this then in New York, right? The epicentre of fashion technology. That was my excuse, anyway, I really want to like,

Suzanne Chadwick  17:48

go to New York in order to do this business. Yeah. I have to use that one one day. Yeah.

Deidre Tshien  17:53

And so yeah, so I think Ash and I, pretty much we're like, Yeah, let's just do it. Because the stores were systemized, like they can run, they pretty much ran without us anyway. And then I was talking to Bonner. And I was like, Yeah, you know, we can make it work, you know, we will do basically will be 24/7. Because I'll do northern hemisphere hours in southern hemisphere hours. And then it was like this one night. So we, we used to every week, work out Ubering guru in Sydney, and then we do we'd have dinner afterwards. And so we were at dinner. And I don't know why I actually remember the moment we were having lasagna. I was like, you don't want to like, do you just want to come to me, she was like,

Deidre Tshien  18:42

I think she was a little bit like, well, let me let me let me think, I don't know, like, you know, think about it and stuff. And then she actually just told me it was so funny, because we recorded another podcast episode. Just on the weekend. I didn't even realise this, but she was like, because we were recounting the story, our journey. And she was like, Yeah, you know what, like, I went home that night. And I just started crying. And I was like, what? I didn't know this, just like, Yeah, I don't think I told you. She was like, I just started crying because I think I knew intuitively they were going to do it. And that meant, you know, because she's very close to our family and stuff. And sure that meant, you know, that she'd have to, you know, leave a family and, and I was like, wow, I didn't realise that. So, there you go. So then so I basically came over to New York, my husband, my cat and my co founder.

Suzanne Chadwick  19:29

You all live together?

Deidre Tshien  19:33

We do yes, so we have a nice two bedroom apartment up in Harlem. And we had it, we prepaid it, we prepaid it for 12 months because we were like, okay, so that gives us a we didn't have you know, credit history or rent history and nothing here. So that was kind of, you know, to get guaranteed be guaranteed almost like accommodation. We had to we had to do that. And then but that also gave us that was like okay, cool. We kind of have like 12 months of, let's make this work, give us all 12 months. And it's so we yeah, we started, we hit the ground running with like this fashion technology idea. We went to Columbia campus, went to NYU went to Wall Street or that to speak to women, women that we thought were in our target market. And we realised, so again, this is another moment. I was. So that was, so we landed in August of 2019. And then December of 2019, I was actually in London with Ash because he had just gotten a new job. And we had to be there to sort of visas and things like that. And it was my, it was on my birthday, actually. And I was working on the engine. So the engine was just an Excel spreadsheet, lots and lots of formulas. It was a big, it was a beast. And I opened, I opened it up and everything was wiped. And I was like I'm like, oh, like, like a really, really old one, like not one that, you know, it was it was like starting from scratch in a way again. And I remember like calling Bonner and I'm like, basically, in two years, I'm like, I can't like this just happened. And anyway, so I was like, it was like, we'll figure it out. So, but as I sat there, and I was like, because I was like thinking about I have to start this thing again, like after, you know, re think through my logic and etc. And I was like, if we were really real with ourselves, because now it came down to, I have to put in a lot of time to redo it, to redo a lot of it. And so I remember calling Bonner back and I'm like, I think we need to have this conversation. Like, do we want to invest more time, potentially money into this idea? Like, we've spoken to a lot of women? Do we hand on heart think that this is something that is a big enough problem, that people are going to change their habits to solve like to, you know, want to

Suzanne Chadwick  22:15

and from the conversations you'd had at Wall Street and the universities and everything? What was the feedback?

Deidre Tshien  22:21

Oh, it was always positive. Because I think when you're, you know, when you're surveying, or when you're putting something in front of people, they're always going to be trying to be as supportive as possible. But I think where I started having misgivings was like, okay, would people actually pay for this thing? And that was, and, you know, people were like, oh, yeah, yeah, I would, but like, at the point where it's like, even it's like, okay, well join our email list, or, you know, like, small step, like, you know, that currency that even that small currency was not really there. And so, and, you know, at the time as well, because this is the thing, when you're like, when you're, when you're starting a business, and you feel like you have this great idea, you kind of morph or you kind of like view what people are seeing you from the lens of that this is going to this is a great idea, right? Like, that's, you know, so even if they're giving you, you can always read into things into what someone's saying in different ways. Like, that's just always gonna be the case. So even if there was like, slightly not negative, but more like constructive feedback, we'd still view it as like, Okay, well, people, this is still something that people need, but we just have to tweak this little thing rather than, are they just being supportive? And they're just actually saying, you know, the constructive feedback should actually be worse, you know, like, it's, they're really scaling it back to be a support more so on the supportive side than not. And so, yeah, so we had to, we had quite a long discussion, actually, and decided to fail the business. Okay. So they were like, oh, gosh, now what now? What do we do? We gave ourselves 12 months, we're, you know, not even six months in and we don't know what we're doing. And so yeah, so it was kind of like, back to the drawing board. Now at the time. The good thing is I bumped into like an acquaintance actually, who has a chocolate store, over here in New York. And he wanted to get online, he wanted to start to transition. And this was actually before COVID. So it was kind of like good timing in a way. You want to get more and more online. And so we were like, well, we can help with that. So we actually just started almost like freelancing, almost like agency work helping him helping him set up his ecommerce business online and growing that and so we kind of fell into E commerce agency work, which then led us into E commerce coaching like we coached ecommerce business owners. And throughout that journey, we you know, in speaking to our clients and ever because my whole thing is Online, you have to tell the story. Like you have to, you know, especially when you're an E commerce and you have this product, because everyone, it's so easy to hide behind your product and be like, here's something I launched and is here, here they are in five different colours. Rather than, you know, wanting to be the face, and I was a big advocate for like, especially when you're starting and you're a small business, you are the differentiator. So you have to step out side out in front of your product, and be the true face of the business. And so, you know, and so I was like, you have to tell the stories. And they're like, Oh, that's great. I get it. But I just don't know how, how do I tell my stories? And so that is honestly how Capsho came about because that where it started from was like, Okay, let's help entrepreneurs turn their stories into what they need it for, which is captions and emails. So yes, that led us down that path. So yeah, we worked on that. And then we launched, as I said, MVP, end of last year.

Suzanne Chadwick  26:02

So good. And so who and so you at the very beginning, you were saying that, you know, you kind of created it for one purpose. And now it's sort of evolving, or you're looking to niche it, etc. And so what's that journey been? So who started to design? The back end of it? Like, how did you kind of get that up and running? And and where are you now with it?

Deidre Tshien  26:24

Yeah, so the back end was or me and I'm like, my, the way that my brain thinks is very much in frameworks. And so I was kind of like, when people were like, I don't know how to tell my stories. I was like, oh, okay, so I had to like, think about how I do it, and break that down. And so I created a framework of like, okay, this is how you tell your story. So I was giving that to my clients. And then I was like, Okay, well, can we take this a step further, and almost put it into some kind of formula? And so that's what I started doing, again, an Excel spreadsheet, and I made sure they had more backups. Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, and then, it was really okay. So, as I was, as I said, I was serving, we're helping e commerce, business owners. And then this is kind of an aside, but it's related. I was at Russell Bronson's like Funnel Hacking live event, which was in September of last year. So between 21 and I, at that time, in that moment, I was actually not feeling I was feeling like I don't know how to, I guess the word that comes to mind now is like unfulfilled at the time, I was just like, I just knew that there wasn't something quite right. But I didn't really know what that was. And it was the last. So he had Tony Robbins speak on the last day of that event, and was so interesting, because in that moment, because Tony was talking, he was talking about the how to create fulfilment or happiness in your life. And therefore we're learning the patterns of focus to do that. And so the first pan of focus he was talking about, he just said, like one word, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I think this is what's happening. Because he was talking about when we focus on what's missing, rather than what we have. That's when we're constantly feeling unfulfilled, feeling unhappy. And I was like, this is what's happening in our current business in our E commerce business, because I think I still had this a little bit of impostor syndrome, because as I said, we fell into agency we work we fell into coaching, it was never something like it wasn't like,

Suzanne Chadwick  28:33

I trained to do it.

Deidre Tshien  28:35

Yeah, exactly. Right. And so what that meant was, I was constantly constantly thinking about what was missing in myself. So you know, and I was, therefore, I was like, Okay, well, I need to get in front of the next thing. And the next thing, the next thing and then as soon as I saw someone promoting some other strategy or some other thing, I'd be like, oh, gosh, okay, I have to learn that so that I can like, you know, be the expert, be the All Knowing person. And

Suzanne Chadwick  28:58

I feel like I'm looking in a mirror. Did you ever like have like a mirror? Yeah, I tried it. I totally get it. I get.

Deidre Tshien  29:04

And yeah, so I so in that moment, I was like, wow, this is what's happening. I am feeling this way. Because I am just always so focused on what's missing. But I was like, but what I do have, because then he was like, focus on what you have. And I was like, Okay, what do I have? And I was like, I was like, Well, I'm an introvert, which I know, a lot of people get a surprise to hear about, but um, I can guarantee you that after this conversation, I'm gonna have a tough take a nap or something. Because so yeah, so I'm an introvert who has still managed to like, you know, climb the corporate ladder, and, you know, build a successful business and like, do all these things, even though I thought this one really negative thing in myself was this negative thing. And but that's something that's actually remarkable, right? And so that's where I was like, Oh, I think this is what I wanted me to be focusing on. It's like, How can I help entrepreneurs find their remark ability, and therefore their stories to tell because that's where their marketability comes in. And so that's when so when we launched Capsho, which was after that event, I was like, well, we can help all entrepreneurs, we can all do it is,

Suzanne Chadwick  30:16

all of them in the whole wide world

Deidre Tshien  30:17

has ever every entrepreneur needs to understand how remarkable they are, and tell their stories. And we have such a great way for you to do that. So that was kind of that was what led me to, and then literally, in the last four weeks, so you talked about the messy middle like and as I say, it's probably also messy, messy beginning messy everything messy. Yeah, in the last four weeks, I saw I was speaking to a coach of ours. And we thought so we hopped on. And we were like, Oh, this is gonna be like a five minute conversation super quick, because we just want to talk about messaging, right? Just just a headline,

Suzanne Chadwick  30:57

love. Five Minute messaging conversation. Not sure that's a thing. But anyway, yeah.

Deidre Tshien  31:04

Like, we just super quick question. And then like, 45 minutes later where he's just like, not, not, you've got a nice down, not not gonna work is too broad now. And we're like, and we like I kid you not, we let that cool was on a Friday morning, midday. And after that I was we were like, brains, but we could not function the rest of the day, because there was just so many things going on, on our mind, which is like, all of the implications of niching down. And there's so many things right that like, the first thing is the fears come up the fears of but are there enough people?

Deidre Tshien  31:50

Right, like

Deidre Tshien  31:51

most of us came up? And then a few years are like, but what is this going to mean for our business? What is this going to mean for the software? Because if we need it, like there's going to be a lot of implications to the downstream impacts of that. So I was like, okay, I can I took like a 90 minute walk. Get out of here, take a 90 minute walk. You know, and then I was like, and then when I was when I walk, I actually listen to podcasts to listen to podcasts. And yeah, and I was, as I was listening to podcasts, because his whole because what our coach was saying was like, you have to make sure and think about who the people are that you want to serve. But be nice, you know, what it is that you're having. And obviously, we started from a place of storytelling. So he was like, you know, is it authors or bloggers and I'm like, I could be but I don't really have like I've written and I've actually have one in edit right now. So I've just read a book, but like, I like but I don't have really apart from that I don't really have an affinity like with authors as such. So as I was walking, I was listening to podcasts, and I was like, paying podcasting is all about telling stories. And I have like four podcasts myself something ridiculous because I just like, you know, I love this I love like talking about it. I think I'm an auditory learner, like all other things. And so I came back here and I said to one I was like, Well, why don't we target podcasters and specifically, like business owners, so at the time, we were like, Okay, what about business owners who podcasts so there's they're specifically looking to grow their business through podcasting. So that was you know, and then we hopped back on so every time we have our our coaching call with our coach, we're always like, Oh my gosh, we're just gonna we're gonna get our balls broken again. He was like, it's good, this is a good start. And you made a lot of progress, but you got to niche down again. Like what how? That seems like a pretty Yeah, that's it. And so back to the drawing board thinking about thinking about it and then you know, as I didn't even know how this came about, but I think it was just through talking and through discussing and working out you know, how we were using in our old in our ecom coaching business? And it was like okay, well what about my high ticket coaches? Because that's what like we were we know that space. And so that's, that's a path that went down and even now like and so even right now, we are still trying to really refine that messaging because we know who we're talking to now and 100 cent hand on heart like having gone through that. I think we all know we hear that all you have to niche down and we're like yeah, whatever, that doesn't apply to my business or like I have I finished it and but really, like, you know, whereas like having gone through that now I'm like, Oh my gosh, it is seriously I know now the importance of doing that because everything since Then has been that much easier, like the content that we create the messages that we put out, even though we're still testing them, like, everything has just been so much easier off the back of that. And we've had people, you know, in, even in those group coaching calls, as we're talking, who's out, they literally are chatting, they're like, sign me up for that. You know, so they're like, Yeah, I'd like you know, so that that mess, like the intuitive message is landing. So like, encrypt onto something. So now it's just about how do we position the software? And our because we do provide courses and stuff to surround that software? Like, how do we now really tighten that so that it's talking to this one specific?

Suzanne Chadwick  35:45

Audience? Yeah. Yeah. So that's saying, that's so good. That's so good, that you're still in that process of working it out and, and testing it. And so what's the next thing for you? With capsho?

Deidre Tshien  35:59

Yeah, so the next thing is we literally spoke to a developer this morning. So we, as part of the niching, down and thinking about things differently now. Because we are targeting high ticket coaches of podcasts and being very specific, very being very intentional about, you know, how we almost what our framework is to help people to do that. So we our vehicle, we came up with a new vehicle that we realised we've always been doing, but we never, never thought about it. And we never put a name to it until we had to be intentional about it. We call it content, honey traps. And that whole that content honey traps is all about how do we at each stage of I call it a front end funnel, compel people to the next thing. So you want to form your social media compel people to have to listen to podcast episode. And then even when they click play, in the first five minutes, you need to compel them to stay, right? You mean you want them to listen to thing and then even in when you're telling a story, you need to start to set those leaders content, honey traps for them to either go to want to go to your show notes or want to keep staying to the end where you're going to drop more value. And then, you know, literally at every step of the way, doing that. So we created a framework around that. And then we actually created new tools for CAP inside capsho. So we created more for like more things. And then we literally spoke to our developer this morning. And he's, he's putting them in to capsho. So by the end of this week, we should have content honey traps as a tool inside of capture, which is gonna be so cool.

Deidre Tshien  37:32

Yeah, and then. And then,

Deidre Tshien  37:34

like I have we have revisions, like we really were already starting to pull podcasts like RSS feeds into into it. But ultimately where I want to go is with machine learning that basically can like read your transcript of the podcast episode. And be able to create all the content for you in terms of capture from a caption perspective, like communality jobs and stories, and, you know, the key takeaways and quotes and like, pull out the really cool things. That's that's the vision. That's what yeah,

Suzanne Chadwick  38:06

that would be amazing. Imagine not having to write the show notes and the rest of it and yeah, all your social content created for you for the podcast. That would be that's incredible. That's such a great idea as well. Yeah. Good. And so are you staying in New York?

Deidre Tshien  38:24

Yeah, so for the foreseeable future, we're Yeah, we're here to stay until I guess the US decides to kick us out. If we're gonna we're gonna make it work.

Suzanne Chadwick  38:36

So good. So good. I love it. Well Deidre, I just think that it's so important not just to tell the stories where everything goes amazingly well, but like we were talking about on your podcast, as well is, you know, what did you learn along the way? What were the things that went wrong? What is that messy middle? Because everybody goes through it? And I think so many entrepreneurs, like, why is it so hard for me and everybody else, it just works seamlessly for him. It's just not true. Like everybody goes through that as well. So telling these stories are such an important thing for us to do. And capture sounds amazing. So where can my listeners find out more about you and capsho and check it all out?

Deidre Tshien  39:18

Yeah, so a couple of places.

Deidre Tshien  39:20

I mean, first of all, I'm on all the social media, so just that direction, but you can also go to diedretshien.com There are links to capture but also to any resources that I ever talked about, and recommend. And I guess the last place is we've just with this niching down we've just launched a new podcast it's called grow my podcast show. And yeah, I'd love to if anyone is interested if they are a coach who is has a podcast and wants to get more high ticket clients through their podcast funnel come and Yeah, listen to grow my podcast show.

Suzanne Chadwick  39:54

Amazing. Well, listen, we'll have all the links in the show notes as well, so that everybody can go and check it out. But So appreciate you being on and love your story.

Deidre Tshien  40:03

Thank you so much, Suz, it was so good to talk to you. You're like a natural. You're such a natural Interviewer I love it.

Suzanne Chadwick  40:11

Well, I can't wait for my audience to check you out. And yeah, love your story as well. I hope you enjoyed that interview. I just think it's so important to share all the different stages of business, the messy middle, when we're still figuring it out. Not everything is a massive success story. From the get go. We're all continuing to work to build and grow the businesses that we want. So I really wanted to share that story with you. I hope that you enjoyed it. That's it for another week. Amazing to have you here. Just remember you can always connect with me on Instagram at Suzanne Chadwick. If you've got any questions, I am here for it happy to answer them for you. Feel free to share this episode if you got a lot of value out of it and I cannot wait to see you next week back here on the podcast.